What Are Splitters, Reverse Splitters, and Super Splitters?

Does 3.5 GPA and 172 LSAT have a chance in a the splitter unfriendly schools you mentioned above?

do super splitter 2.0/180 ever get a chance to explain or even have decent chance getting accepted to top 10 schools?

I graduated in 2015 with a 3.94 GPA and summa cum laude honors, but my first LSAT score (September 2014 – even after taking a Powerscore prep course) was only 158. I am taking it again this Sept/Oct and am currently scoring with practice tests anywhere between 160-167 I’m having a really difficult time searching for schools and knowing how realistic my chances are being that I am so far above the median GPA yet below most median LSAT scores. I have no concept of what range of schools I should be looking for, and I can’t afford to apply to dozens of schools. I’m interested in the University of Minnesota, Northwestern, UChicago (near impossible, I know) American University, George Washington, and Northeastern – regionally I’m only interested in the midwest like MN, WI, and IL (I’m from Minnesota) or out east in D.C. or Boston. Do you have any insight as to what range/rank of schools would be good bets vs. reach schools? I appreciate your insight!

Hi Dave,

I took the October LSAT and got a 149. I then took the December exam and got a 159 on my LSAT and have a 3.2 GPA. Do you think I should study for the June LSAT and take it once more to apply at the start of the next cycle or apply now and see if I can get in to one or two of my preferred schools and if not, take it in June and apply for the next cycle?

Thanks!

I’m a reverse splitter 163/ 3.86 with really strong softs. Is there any harm in applying this admissions cycle, and then reapplying in the Fall if I don’t get into the schools I want? I have a high chance of getting into George Washington, but I’d like to see if I have any luck at higher ranked schools (i.e.: Cornell, Penn, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Emory, and Georgetown) What are your thoughts?

Hello! I am really need to understand my current chances and situations to be more realistic.

I am currently senior in uc irvine, majoring criminolgy, law, and society.
I am planning to take a year or two off and work at a law firm.

Last summer, I worked as an intern at a law firm in South Korea and I will start my new internship next monday at law firm near buena park california. Founded ucirvine’s official korean international student organization and continued to play saxophone since 9th grade high school.

Hard factors is my gpa.
I will be graduating with a gpa range 3.92-3.98.
With an assumption that my last will be above 173,

1.What are my chances to
UChicago, northwestern, emory, cornell, Upenn, brown, Columbia and other t14,t20 schools?
2. Will one or two years off for field experience make my low gpa less visible??
3. Is my soft factors strong enough? In other words, are they helpful enough to cover up my low gpa?
4. I went through several hardships during undergraduate-such as legal fights due to a car accident, renter and landlord issues, realationship problem that made me go to ER, absence of parent in the US, etc
5. Can my major(criminology, law, and society) and school(uc irvine: schoolmof social ecology) be benefiticial in some way? Or these facts does not matter at all?
6. Any advice or suggestions so that I can attend one of the t14 school???

please let me know the reality and be harsh as much as possible so that I can expect the worst in some sense.

Thank you very much for you time!

I’m sorry. I meant 2.95 gpa not 3.95

Hey Ben, I’m not really sure. The UVA numbers have always been low on the LSAC predictor–it’s not just in this iteration. Harvard has always been the place where it’s been said that a 4.0/180 was no guarantee, and you can see that their numbers are much higher when you check it.

The released UVA data shows 75th percentile LSAT is around 170 and 75th percentile GPA is around 3.9. That data suggests something is wrong here. Only LSAC would know the real answer, but I suspect any of their reps would simply say that’s the data they have.

Sorry I can’t be more help!

Hey Sean,

Thanks for the message! If you can hit a 163, then I’d go ahead and sit for the September test. I will say that taking the December LSAT doesn’t knock you out of the running either: http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/bid/284224/hoping-to-apply-to-law-school…, so you could take that exam and be ok as far as timing.

For me, the decision to sit for a test always comes down to how well you can do. If you can do pretty well, then go for it. But if you don’t feel great about it, or know that you still need to improve things, then I’d delay. I’d rather take December and score a 165 than September with a 163. The power of just a few points is so strong that it offsets and outweighs the rolling admissions early application advantage.

That extra study time might also counteract the stress you are feeling right now. If you’ve followed what I write about the LSAT, you know that stress can adversely affect your score and so you are right in thinking about that factor. Do whatever it takes to eliminate that stress.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hey Andy,

Thanks for the question! I wouldn’t necessarily rule out the Top 25. I know of a student at Penn with a 2.9, and a student at UVA with a 2.5. Yes, those are outliers, but they do exist and it shows it’s possible. You’d have to nail your personal statement and the grade explanation, but as you move down the rankings line, that 180 will get more and more attractive. Top 25 is a longshot, but possible. Some school in the T50 will accept you though, and likely T35.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hey Kelsey,

I hate to say it, but my gut feeling is that you wouldn’t get in via ED. While your GPA is above their median and 75th, it’s not actually by that much (3.86 was their median GPA for the class of 2019). On the other hand, your LSAT was well below their median (which was 169). they shift you into their regular app pool, and your ED status would help, but I’m not sure what occurs at that point since it depends on the other applicants.

You are correct that UVA is at worst splitter-neutral and that it has an ED advantage (not huge, but a decent one appears to exist). But I’m not sure that’s enough here, even with your stellar GPA.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the good news is that each year is different, and depending on what they get as far as apps, I might be way off 🙂

Thanks!

Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the question, and congrats to your son on graduating soon! There’s no perfect answer to this question, but if he applies now and knows he is retaking the LSAT, schools won’t process his application until his next score comes in. So, I recommend he wait on submitting apps until he takes the LSAT again. Then, law schools will get his second score very soon after it is released (usually just a few days). They can then review his file with the new score. And, if he can improve his score, there’s no downside on having taken the LSAT multiple times and even just a few extra points will offset the delay from applying later. So, bottom line is that I would wait on apps and have him pour his extra time into the LSAT (by extra time I mean his free time after his school work is done–he needs to keep that GPA up!).

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hi Hannah,

It really depends on the school and what they need this year! But that high LSAT will be attractive for sure. Probably your chances are anywhere from 25% to 75% based on numbers alone, which shows you how uncertain it is–it’s going to come down to the specific features of the applicant pool at each school. One thing that might help: next week we’re going to post an extensive blog on the T50 schools and splitters, with lots of data in it about which schools favor splitters and which don’t. Watch for that–I think it will help you in making your assessment of each school!

Please let me know if this helps. Thanks!

Hi Savannah,

On Monday, we’ll be posting a blog that uses some statistical breakdowns of schools in the T14 and T50 to help shed some light on which schools are more splitter friendly. In the meantime, one of the big takeaways is that it changes a bit each year, and how schools react to splitters depends on what each school needs in their class. So, if a school has already admitted a lot of high LSAT scores but needs a GPA boost, then they can become reverse-splitter friendly very suddenly. So, check out that blog post on Monday, but also keep in mind that the exact nature of each admit pool for each school in each year has an effect here (and that no one can see inside the pool other than the adcomm for that school).

Thanks!

Hi Sophia,

Thanks for the question! Just today we posted an extensive blog on how schools view splitters, at http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly. That should help answer your questions. Thanks!

Hey John,

Thanks for the question! When it comes to the T14, it’s an outside chance–lower than 50% I would think. Your softs–while impressive–will help, but they alone are often not enough to overcome numbers that are below the medians.

When it comes to a school like Harvard, the thing I often note is that it seems to me that everyone who gets in to the law schools is just super powerful. The numbers are great, the recs and personal statements are stellar, and the softs are extraordinary. So, even when you have killer numbers it’s not a guarantee. When both your numbers are below the median, it really becomes a longshot at best. Sorry about that.

Thanks and please let me know if you have any other questions.

Hi M K,

It’s always case by case, but I think that usually “mature” or older students receive a small boost compared to “regular” applicants. There are fewer of them, for one thing, and when you are not in the majority that is typically a positive. They also tend to be more certain and more focused on what they want from law school, which are attractive features. But, by itself, being older doesn’t create an automatic admit or deny scenario, and so it’s just one small positive factor, and not decisive.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hi S,

Thanks for the questions! First off, it’s not actually all that late: http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/bid/284224/hoping-to-apply-to-law-school…. At this point, there’s a wave of applications coming in, but given your splitter stats, I’d way wait for the GPA boost–at your level every bit counts.

As far as schools to apply to, that’s really difficult for me to say. To me, applying to schools is more than just LSAT/GPA, and for instance going to a school like Duke produces a totally different experience than, say, NYU. I always recommend paring down schools based on personal preferences, mainly because if you aren’t happy with the overall environment, then it makes it harder to do well, and doing well is absolutely essential because first-year grades are a huge factor in what kind of jobs you get in your 1L summer. That said, this article tells you which schools tend to be more splitter friendly: http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly.

Your sister is in a similar boat–like your 179, the 180 will get looks, but at the top schools like HYS, the grades will be a killer. So, she needs to do as much as possible to get that CAS GPA up! At that point, it’s then a hope that a school in the CCN range decides that the high LSAT score along with the recent 4.0s is enough to take a chance. And remember, each year is different, and what they need changes depending on their applicant pool.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hi S,

Yes, the fact that you are both engineering majors is a big positive–the standard law school applicant is a humanities major, and anything that sets you a part from the “norm” is a good thing.

It’s the CAS GPA being used there. That is the “official” GPA since it is standardized and everyone placed on the same scale.

Thanks!

Thank you for the reply.

Hi Dave,

Although my practice scores were consistently 170-173 I scored a 163 on the December lsat. However, I do have a 3.98 from an ivy with a year abroad at the University of Oxford and a great deal of professional and extracurricular experience. Do you think I have a shot at t14 schools? Thanks!

Hey Bren,

Thanks for the question! While your Masters is a nice addition, in general law schools tend to downplay Masters GPA. This is partially because not everyone has one and partially because of perceived grade inflation in Masters programs (that’s what they tell me, at least). So, it’s the uGPA they will focus on, and fortunately yours is still very strong! The Masters is most useful when comparing students–it’s a good thing to have in your pocket since in a direct comparison it gives you an advantage over most other students. It can also be additionally helpful if it relates to the legal field you wish to enter, as it can show a well-considered career path.

To be blunt, the 148 will hurt. I don’t know which schools you are targeting, but at the moment your SLAT score would appear to be the element holding you back. So, whichever test you choose to take, since you know it will be your third take you should choose the one that gives you the greatest opportunity for the highest score. This is more or less a one shot to do your best, so choose the test that sets you up the best to succeed. As you suggest, that score will not only impact your admissions chances, but your financial aid offers as well. So, make sure you give it your best!

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hey Bren,

No, I mean choose the test that suits your schedule and preparation timeline the best. For some people that might be June but for others it might be September. Just make sure to give yourself enough time to really get everything straight, and the test that gives you the most free time to prepare. Sometimes students get so focused on taking the next LSAT that they fail to see that it’s not the best LSAT for them 🙂

Thanks!

Hi Emily,

Thanks for the question! In general, the T14 isn’t overly friendly to splitters of any sort, mainly because the standards are so high within that group (see http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly).

Your background looks pretty solid but I’m concerned that your LSAT score will be the stumbling block. Looking at LSAC’s data, they say that you have between a 19% and 30% chance of admission, and looking over some other admission data shows me that on rare occasion UM will take students with those numbers, but more often they will not. So, you’re somewhat of a longshot due to the 159, which I think you knew.

What about sitting for the LSAT again, even if that was in June? If you added just a few points to your score you’d likely be admitted, and if you end up on the waitlist (very possible) then having a June retake scheduled could really help you. See http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/the-law-school-wait-list-and-the-june-lsat for more info on that.

Please let me know what you think. Thanks!

Dave,

What do you think about 3.63/ 178. Is Harvard Stanford or Columbia an option? or is GPA too low?

By the way, Stanford is fairly similar to Harvard, and then Columbia would be even easier. the bottom line being that if you have a shot at Harvard, you for sure have a shot at any other school too!

Hi PAmela,

Thanks for the question! The general advice for a LOCI is to keep it short and sweet, but, since this is your top choice, say that to them. Telling them that if you are accepted you will attend is a powerful message!

The other advice you often hear is to add any new or updated information, but it doesn’t look like that has happened, so ignore that.

The only other thing you could add would be the following, from one of my colleagues: “talk about why the school is a good match for you. Do some research and look for a specific program or student organization that is unique to the school that would help further your career goals. Make sure that any information referenced is in keeping with the theme and positioning of the rest of your application. In addition to telling the school why they are one of your top choices, you should also tell them why the school should want you. You need to tell schools why they should choose you over everyone else it is considering.” My advice: only do this if it’s a perfect fit; don’t do this if you have to stretch at all.

There are no guarantees because a LOCI just isn’t powerful enough by itself to get you off the WL, but the above will help. Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hey George,

Can you clarify what you mean exactly? Is it a recommendation as in which school to apply ED to? If that’s the case, that’s a really tough question for me here since I’d need more info on your goals, geographic preferences to live/work, and so on. If you can provide that, I’d be glad to make some suggestions! Also, check this article out as well: http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/applying-to-law-school-to-ed-or-not-to-ed — there is a ton of good info in that post about schools and how they value ED applicants.

Thanks!

Hi Kanha,

Thanks for the question! Your 180 will make you an attractive candidate at a lot of schools, but how attractive depends on the applicant pool that year. At T14 schools your GPA will be under the median, but usually GPA is easier to offset than LSAT, so you will still have schools interested in you. Take Virginia, for example (see: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/about/factsstats.htm). Their median LSAT is 169 and their 75% LSAT is 170, so your 180 is way above those. But their median GPA is 3.86, and their 25% GPA is 3.48, so you are just above the 25% line. Students with a 3.5 GPA and 170 to 180 LSAT score are often accepted or wait listed, so you have a reasonable shot there despite the relatively low GPA (for T14 schools).

As far as where to apply, that’s a tough question. Virginia and NYU, to take two T14 schools, are about as different as you can get starting just with location. What I’d do if I were you is assume that you will apply to every T14 school and then start removing schools based on elements you find unacceptable. Cost of living in California is too high? There goes Stanford and Berkeley. Don’t want to live in a big city? There goes Harvard, Columbia, NYU, Penn, etc. Narrow it down to schools you actually would want to attend, and learn about each school. Learn about each school because the environment you are in–and how much you like that environment–will have a big effect on your performance, and first year grades play a massive role in your job options.

The 180 will give you a look at every school. At the top 6 things are dicey no matter who you are–those schools (especially the top 3) are simply so good that they select who they want, and students with great numbers get rejected all the time. With your GPA, you don’t get second chances though, and that means that every other part of your app has to be stellar. You need to nail your personal statement, get great recs, and hopefully have an EC/softs record that is superb. If you have those in place, you’ll get into enough of the T14 to give yourself some difficult choices, which is the spot everyone wants to be in.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hi Pamela,

Thanks for the questions! These are both straightforward to me:

YES, definitely take the June LSAT. this pathway of using June to get off the wait list is well-known enough that I wrote an article about it: http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/the-law-school-wait-list-and-the-june-lsat

Next, don’t worry about your score, even if it does go down. The school won’t care because they focus on the high score. See http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/should-you-retake-the-lsat-admissions-ex… for more info on that. They will receive an update with your score, but if it does go down, write them a letter stating that you took it because you wanted to go to that school so much you were doing everything possible to get off the WL. That’s really what’s happening here, so it’s completely a legitimate statement to make. Everyone loves being loved, so they will take that as a compliment (and they’ll use your prior high score thereafter, just like before).

I don’t see a downside here, and I would go for it. You might not only get in off the WL, you might get some money as well.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Sounds great, please do not hesitate to let me know if I can help in any way.

Thanks!

Thank you. That was really helpful!!! I am going to work on my softs and personal statement/essays. I just hope they also consider the fact that I am an engineering major…

Hi Kanha,

Don’t worry, they will! that’s also not the most common law school major, so you get credit just for having that on your record as well 🙂

Good luck!

Hi Dave,
Thank you, again, for your patience and accessibility in responding to the many questions you receive. As the May 1st deposit deadline is fast approaching for most schools, is it a good or bad move to reach out to my first choice school where I am waitlisted in early May to reaffirm my interest? I’ve already submitted a LOCI and don’t want to be a pest, but yet want them to know how committed I am to attending should I be fortunate to move off the wait list. Thanks for your advice.

Hi Dave! Thanks for taking out the time to answer everyone’s questions. I’m a Communications major at a university in Canada with a 3.1 GPA. My LSAT score however, is 180 – I consistently studied for a long time as I was not able to apply right after my graduation. Would I be able to target the top 10? I was ill throughout my first year at university, hence the poor grades (I suffer from a genetic disorder). I have decent softs and will apply in a year or so, so I’ll spend that time in developing my softs. Also working on a startup with my partner, and if that works out then that will definitely be a powerful point on my resume.

Thanks for your help! 🙂

Hi Dave,

I have a 3.3 UGPA & I am sitting for the LSAT’s in Sept aiming minimum for a 170. I am inquiring on my chances on getting into Georgetown, GWU, and American University. I am more concerned about scholarship money as I know my UGPA is below the 25% median. Please advise

Thank you Dave for the prompt response.

I have a strong work background. Some strong letters of rec notably from my previous supervisor who is currently in law school. I have some volunteer work, and also a paralegal experience working in a law firm. I recently got accepted into a masters program (30 credits) I am currently contemplating if I want to pursue my masters & start law school in the fall or just give all my effort to mastering the LSAT & applying over the next year. I feel like my masters program will hinder me from giving my undivided attention to studying for the LSAT but I know a masters never hurt either.

Hey LArry,

The short answer is yes, you have a chance! The 178 is high enough to get their attention, and although the 3.6 is low (for them), the LSAT helps offset that. It’s not a guarantee, of course, but if the rest of your application is stellar, I suspect you’d garner at least a waitlist spot. I have a student from this year with a 177 and a 3.5 or so who has been placed on the waitlist, and I know of students with similar numbers who have been accepted.

The key thing is to have no other issues with your app. Make sure *everything* is bulletproof and as high-quality as possible. We do a lot of work with applications, and to get started check out my free personal statement seminar: https://player.vimeo.com/video/94191768. I don’t often push our programs here, but the law school admissions consulting services we provide (https://www.powerscore.com/lsat/law-school-admissions/) actually make a lot of sense for students applying into the T14. Given the monetary value of a T14 admit, especially with scholarship $$, those programs (from us or other advisors such as Spivey) actually make financial sense.

Best of luck and please let me know how it goes!

Hi Rebecca,

Thanks for the questions! Let me see if I can help out here:

1. Nope, it’s not going to hurt, especially since you changed your major and that was the cause (as opposed to you being lazy or taking light course loads). the reason it took you 5.5 years makes “sense” when you tell the story, and when that’s the case the law schools stop worrying about it.

2. They will hurt a bit, because numbers are still numbers and at the end of the day the school has to report your actual GPA. But, the depth of the impact will depend on the other applicants around you.

3. 3.36 GPA/175 LSAT gives you a shot at the T14. From the law schools’ perspective, high GPAs are more frequent among applicants, and thus high LSAT scores are more desirable than high GPAs. So, it’s mainly that LSAT score giving you a chance, and if a school needs to kick up their LSAT number, they could very well bypass your GPA and send you an admit.

4. Yes, it will help a bit since you will be differentiated from the “typical” law school applicant.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Dear Dave,

I guess in this instance I am a reverse splitter. Here are my stats:

LSAT: Practice tests have me at 150-156
GPA: 3.89 (Im doing my university’s dual degree program and am pursuing honors in both).

I am wanting to apply to Washington University in St. Louis ED in September. I have stellar softs as I am applying for the Rhodes, and Marshall Scholarships in the fall, and I have a lot of family that graduated from that particular law school. What do you think my chances of getting in would be? And if I get a low LSAT should I submit an LSAT addendum? Any advice would be useful as I am taking the June LSAT.

Hi Dave!

Sorry, I don’t know why I never saw this comment! Sorry for the late response!
Here are the term grades:
2013 (Summer, Fall, respectively): 1.54, 1.50
2014: 2.11 (Summer + took one academic program to get back on track with my studies).
2015: 3.67, 3.56, 3.67
2016: 3.30, 3.53, 3.91
2017: 3.53, (aiming for a 4.0 in my last semester).

These are all on a 4.3 scale though 🙁

Please let me know what to do to make my application look more appealing to Canadian/US law schools. With Canadian, I think I will be ok because they take away your worst years or some of your worst credits. With US schools, I know they take into consideration work experience and stuff too, but I don’t know what kind of softs will put my application on the table!

Thank you SOOOOOOO much Dave!

What are my chances with a 3.1 GPA and 180 LSAT at a T6 and T14?

Hey Dave:

Any chance for being admitted into GT or GE ‘part time’ JD if I get LSAT score?

GPA: 2.1 (major in law at no. 1 ranked university in Korea)

LSAT: not taken yet.

9 years ago I got into GW LLM (Masters of Law), graduated with 3.0 gpa, and passed NY bar on my first try in 2009. My guess is the reason for my acceptance into GW LLM with such a poor GPA then was (i) it was LLM, not JD program; and (ii) thanks to my unique working experience after graduation (IT venture startups in Korea and the US).

After LLM, I had worked as an in-house counsel at Samsung and Korean Government for 6 years. And now I am working at a boutique law firm at Northern VA area.

You might wonder why I, a NY attorney, want to pursue JD. First, I can not sit for a VA bar exam because VA requires only JD graduates take VA bar. Plus, I really want to have deep understanding of US Legal system. LLM is 1 year program which was too short for me.

Thanks for your advice in advance.

Hey Charles,

Thanks for the message, and the kind words! the first place you should look is at: http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly. that post talks more about splitters and particularly which schools appear to more splitter friendly than others. In your situation, a small advantage could be helpful!

The lower LSAT is always an issue, but with your high GPA what might happen is that you see more than a few waitlists. Vandy in particular has waitlisted students with very similar numbers to yours in the past, and the chances are even better at the other schools. So, I’d apply and hope for some outright acceptances, but barring that, I’d wager you’ll get on a few waitlists. Depending on the rest of the applicant pool, that could work out just fine for you.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the question, and GREAT increase! Congrats! You GPA will hurt a bit, but that LSAT score will help a lot of the T25. With your broad options, I’m actually going to recommend two sites to you that will help calculate chances:

The first is LSAC’s LSAT/GPA calculator: https://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/UGPALSAT/UGPALSAT.aspx. It will give you a percentage range based your numbers.

Next is MyLSN, which uses data from LSN to provide feedback on chances: http://mylsn.info/.

Those can do a far better job than I can of giving you insight into each school. You have a chance, but the GPA is the big worry obviously.

Good luck!

Hi Cody,

Thanks for the question! With a 172 and a 3.53, you have a legit shot at the T14, and your chances at Texas are extremely high (I’d say above 90% if your personal statement is solid). That 172 will pull you into a lot schools, and the 3.53 isn’t really a huge problem, especially when you have a solid reason for your early grades. So, apply wherever you want and see what happens.

Side comment for anyone else reading: if you have an LSAT score above the 75th% at a school and your GPA is in the middle, apply. A high LSAT score (above the 75th) is worth “more” than a high GPA. Why? Because high GPAs are relatively common whereas high LSAT scores are not. So, a school like Texas will take your 172 and use that to offset someone else’s low LSAT, and then use that person’s high GPA to offset your lower GPA. They don’t match individuals exactly like that, but on a broader collective scale, that’s what is happening.

Cody, please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hi Jasmine,

Thanks for the question! It sounds like your GPA will be somewhat explained, which makes it less of a concern (although not entirely eliminated). With an LSAT score in the 170s, you’ll have lots of options. So many, in fact, that it’s impossible for me to make a recommendation. As most readers here know, I very rarely recommend our services directly so as to avoid bias issues, but this may well be a case for a law school consultant: https://www.powerscore.com/lsat/law-school-admissions/.

There are so many factors in play is what makes it difficult, including: where do you want to live, now and after law schjool? Are there practice specialties you like, or a type of firm you want to join? How debt averse are you? How rankings-conscious are you? you need to start thinking about big picture items first, and that will help you narrow the schools to those that interest you most and that are withing your numbers.

Thanks!

Hi Dolna,

The short answer is yes, it would be worth it. The 179 is so attractive that it would garner a lot of admits in spite of the lower GPA. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, low GPAs are easier to offset than low LSATs in applicant pools, and thus high LSAT scores are particularly desirable.

Just using LSAC’s basic GPA/LSAT calculator at https://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/UGPALSAT/UGPALSAT.aspx, suggests that at a schools like #25 ASU and #26 BC you’d be a near-certain admit. There are many, many other schools where the chances are similar as well.

In many ways this is a perfect example of how a high LSAT score can strongly offset a low GPA, and in your case would certainly make it worth it to apply.

I hope that helps. Thanks!

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the question! First, I’d go back and look at those LSAC stats again. At schools like Texas (63-73%) you are over 50%, and even at schools like Berkeley (42-52%), NYU (40-50%), and Cornell (37-50%) your chances include 50%. If you look at some other resources, what you see is that at the lower T14, you have a shot. It’s probably close to a 50-50 shot, and I can see you getting waitlisted at a few places. But, the point is that you are in the conversation.

I actually think you gave the answer here already about a retake: “I’m unsure I would be able to raise my score to 170 even with a retake.” If that’s the case, and you gave it a real solid shot the first time, then move forward. Yes, I know that with your high GPA that a higher LSAT would be very helpful, but if you don’t personally think you can do it, then it won’t happen (see http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/bid/326433/Tom-Brady-and-the-LSAT). So, unless that changes, I’d probably stick with what you have an make a run at a bunch of T25 and lower T14 schools and see what happens.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hi Pamela,

Short answer: YES, contact them! While they are likely fully aware of deposit deadlines at other top schools, there is no harm in saying something along the lines of: I love your school, I really want to attend but am only on the WL. I have to begin making non-refundable tuition payments on X/X, and thus after that date will be committed to school Y. I am hoping to receive final word from you prior to that date, etc etc.

Alternatively, call them and speak to someone well-placed in the office (Asst Dean of Admissions, Dean of Financial Aid, etc) and explain your position. That’s the faster and more direct way, and at this time of year, perhaps more desirable as a method to get your message across.

These schools have all dealt with this before, so it won’t be a surprise. But with your drop-dead date approaching, there’s no harm in letting your other school know that.

Good luck and please let me know what happens. Thanks!

Hi Kris,

Thanks for the question! Scenarios like this are so open-ended as to be almost impossible to answer. Without question your 180 (if you’ve achieved it–congrats! If not, it’s actually pretty hard to do so) will attract attention, but your GPA is a big concern, obviously. I’d say that your chances of admission at the top schools like HYS are very low. Towards the bottom of the T14? Middle to decent depending on the school. LSAC shows an interesting range, with Columbia and NYU most attracted by the high SLAT score: https://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/UGPALSAT/UGPALSAT.aspx.

As for scholarship money, I can’t say. Depends on next year’s pool numbers at each school as well as other elements of your application (of which I know nothing). t certainly won’t be overwhelming if any monies are offered, in my opinion.

Sorry for the broad answer, but the parameters here are too broad at this point to make a definite judgment. Thanks!

Hi Kanha,

Thanks for the question. It is worth your while to apply–the 180 is such a draw that you’ll almost assuredly get some acceptances assuming the rest of your app is solid:

Example 1: In the last year, every applicant to Columbia with a 180 and 3.3 or above was accepted.

Example 2: In the last year, every applicant to Georgetown with a 180 and 3.3 or above was accepted.

The 180 puts you in the conversation and will ALWAYS be looked at. The rest is up to you, but it’s worth your time.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Thank you so much. Yes, I will apply. I am currently working on my Personal Statement and I’ll be done with it in about 2 weeks.
When do you think is the best time to apply as a non-ED applicant for T14? I have all my scores and transcripts and I have informed my recommenders too. Should I apply as soon as apps open in mid-September or wait for a while?

Also, do I have to write an addendum for my low GPA? I don’t have any specific reason, except my courses were hard and I’d generally end up getting a B+
And if I don’t have to write an addendum, then should I talk about my GPA in my personal statement or just highlight my LSAT score?

Thank you once again. I really appreciate it!!!

The basic rule is: apply as early as you can with the best numbers you can. So, in your case, apply when the window opens. For others, the advice might be to wait if they could improve their LSAT score, etc.

If you don’t have a good explanation for the GPA, don’t submit one. It will be transparent otherwise. And don’t put it in your PS–focus instead on positives and telling the story of who you are! I wouldn’t talk about your LSAT score in your PS either, because you are more than a number. Watch this for more info: https://player.vimeo.com/video/94191768.

Good luck!

Hi Min,

Thanks for the message! I hope this arrives in time to assist you 🙂

First, this is a decision that is probably beyond my ability to help with, given that it’s so big and I have so few details. I do know this–if you aren’t equipped to do well in the current program due to language issues, then you will be tied to a low GPA because of that, and it will follow you around through law school applications. I say that while at the same time acknowledging my admiration for you for even being able to get into the program and attend classes in Russia with only a year of the language–that’s impressive!! I do think an addendum will help because you can tell a story that is truly unique and shows that you are a risk-taker and willing to take on a challenge. But, the numbers will be hard to escape, so be aware that the addendum will not outweigh the lower GPA.

So, I don’t know what you should do, but I do think you should follow your instincts on this decision–make the choice that makes you feel the most comfortable and happiest.

Good luck!!

Hi Min,

Thanks for the update! I’m so glad you’ve made a decision that has already begun to make you feel better. That’s great to hear 🙂

Good luck and study hard. Thanks!

Hi Freeman,

Thanks for the question! A student with a 177 always has a shot at any school, so I wouldn’t use the list above as a yes/no decision tool. This is more about likelihoods, but remember that it only takes one of those schools to say yes. Plus, some portion of these decisions is affected by the specific applicant pool each year, hence things can, and will, change.

Give it a shot, and best of luck!

Hi Dave,

I’m an American student that did her entire undergrad abroad with a foreign credit evaluation of “Above Average”. I’m not sure if you would know but how does the splitter factor work with foreign credits? If I have an Above Average “GPA”, a 175+ LSAT, and strong softs (i.e. LLM-equivalent graduate degree, law clerked for a judge with a strong recommendation, top tier foreign university) are T14 schools viable? From what I understand, an “Above Average” evaluation is basically the equivalent of 3.0-3.79, which would be a really broad range in GPA for an American school. I heard also that some law schools give greater weight to the LSAT when your undergraduate credits are foreign.

Thanks so much! Your forum is super useful!

Hi Regina,

Thanks for the question! The short answer is yes, they are both going to be a long shots. The thing about sub-3.0 GPAs is that even with a good explanation, the law school still has to report it to the ABA, and that makes it terribly difficult for them to accept candidates in that range. That said, there isn’t a whole lot of data available, and the best estimator in this case is the LSAC GPA/LSAT search, which shows Berkeley at 0-10% and UCLA at 2-12% chance of admission. Not great, unfortunately.

I also suggest that you review the following two articles, if you haven’t already:

http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/applying-to-law-school-to-ed-or-not-to-ed

http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly

Those should help shape your decisions because they are both directly relevant to both early decision chances as well as splitter chances.

Thanks!

Hi Randall,

Thanks for the questions! First, with those numbers you do indeed have a reasonable shot at a T14, and schools like NYU, Duke, Michigan, Texas, and Georgetown are places where your chances are above 50%. So, I’d say that if you blanketed the rest of the T14, chances are good that you’d pull at least one admit (Michigan and Texas being the two most likely, in my opinion).

Second, FOR SURE the extra points would help. 3 more points at this level would turn schools like NYU and Columbia into near locks. It would also produce better financial aid offers, so it’s a double win if you can raise your score! I wrote an article about students using the June LSAT results to increase their chances of getting off the wait list, but the same logic applies to February and regular admissions as well: http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/the-law-school-wait-list-and-the-june-lsat. And, you’ll actually see a blog post from me this upcoming Tuesday where I talk about who should retake the LSAT, and anyone who has left points on the table is in that group. So for me, it’s a 100% Yes that you should retake if you feel you can do better.

I’m glad we’ve been able to help, and thanks for letting us know that! It makes writing posts and answering questions that much easier and more enjoyable!

Hi Laura,

The thing to remember about these term is that they are relative. You might be a splitter at one school but not at another. It all depends on the medians at each school. that said, your numbers are high enough that you aren’t a true splitter at any school. At Columbia, for example, both your numbers are at the median. So, your chances there are pretty good, and I’d suspect that almost for sure you’d make the Waitlist at worst, and you’d have about a 50% chance of getting in outright. Very unlikely that you’d be rejected outright.

Overall, your chances at HYS aren’t great, but thereafter they rise enough to make it worth an app at the schools that interest you. You’ll probably pull at least one acceptance at a T14, and after the T14 you’ll be accepted at pretty much all of the remaining schools.

Good luck, and please put in a good word for us if the LSAT ever comes up!

Hi S,

My quick answer here is that you *definitely* have a shot at the T14! There’s not a lot of data on applicants with your numbers, but that 180 will be extremely attractive, and law schools can more easily offset a low GPA than a low LSAT score. So, outside the T6, I’d say there are multiple schools that will admit you.

When it comes to applying early versus having better numbers, typically the better numbers win (here’s an example of LSAT scores vs applying early: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/does-submitting-an-early-law-school-app…). In your case, 3.3 vs 3.36 is not enough of a difference to move the needle, so I would apply when you feel your application is done (that is, make absolutely sure your personal statement is the ebst is can be. See https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/the-powerscore-ultimate-law-school-pers… for more info, especially the video seminar).

The extra semester is a non-issue 🙂

Last note: have you ever thought about teaching the L:SAT? If so, send an email to Miranda Rhodes at: mrhodes at powerscore dot com. She heads our HR and would love to talk to you I’m sure!

Please let me know if this helps. Thanks and great job with your LSAT score!

Hi GK,

Happy holidays to you too! some good news for you here:

1. It’s not that late at all. See the following for more info on that: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/bid/284224/hoping-to-apply-to-law-schoo…

2. Your splitter status is actually desirable as far as splitters go. FAR better to have the high LSAT/lower GPA combo, than the reverse. Why? Because lower GPAs are easier to offset than lower LSATs (and that is because more people have high GPAs, in general, than high LSAT scores).

3. You might have missed a link in the article above, but definitely go read this: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly

It will give you some sense of which schools have historically been more splitter-friendly, but like anything, it’s not definitive and things can change from year to year.

4. Out of the T14, I would think schools like Michigan, UVA, Texas, and Georgetown would give you a fair chance, but it’s really going to be hit and miss (as in, anywhere form 25% to 60%). It won’t be until you hit schools like Vandy and WUSTL that you see some improved odds. And, after the T20 you’ll see some rejections from schools who don’t think you are serious about attending (!), so if you really like a school such as USC, make sure they understand your intent is genuine (this is the effect of 178).

5. Your softs are a bit of a concern, and they could hinder you here. Really work on that personal statement! This might help a bit: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/the-powerscore-ultimate-law-school-pers…

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hi A,

Thanks for the question! Your chances in the T14 aren’t really great, and UT at best I see a waitlist (and even the chances of that aren’t very high). UT’s history with students near your numbers isn’t overly positive, unfortunately.

The news gets better as you hit the 20-25 range, and at schools like Notre Dame you are likely to get in, and as you go down the list the chances just get higher and higher. After about #30, it’s basically 100% barring some problem in your app I don’t know about.

Your GPA isn’t something that can typically be changed (not in the short-term at least), so your best opportunity at changing your chances is to retake the LSAT. Is that a possibility?

Thanks!

Hi Zygi,

A few thoughts:

1. They will use your 3.2 for their final admissions decision, so your school choice needs to be based on that.

2. They will review your history, and seeing that your GPA was killed by a bad semester will help make them feel more confident in you. It won’t offset the 3.2, but in borderline cases it will give them confidence you are a better student than the numbers show. So write an a GPA Addendum and explain what happened so they know. It will help!

3. Honestly, your 172 gives you a shot a a pretty wide range of schools. Inside the T14 the chances are low, but not impossible. For example, a school like Michigan is a place where you probably have about a 1 in 3 chance of acceptance just based on the numbers, perhaps more if they like your GPA explanation.

At the bottom of the T14, your chances start moving over 50% for admissions, and typically just keep getting better. Schools like UCLA or Vanderbilt are fairly likely to accept you.

Given the above, and the fact that you have an explanation for the GPA, I’d apply to a few T14 schools and certainly a solid selection of schools in the T25. If you are seeking a big financial package, then add in schools in the T50 that interest you. That 172 will pull in a lot of attention form them, and that will translate into a better offer.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Wow, 180 is spectacular–congrats on that! If you ever want to apply for a teaching job, I can point you in the right direction 🙂

As far as schools, I doubt HYS will accept you based on GPA, but outside those three, it’s really a total unknown as to what would happen. Yes, the 3.26 is lower than they want, but that 180 will be like a siren call to them. It’s an established fact that a higher LSAT score is more powerful than a higher GPA, because high GPAs are more common than high LSAT scores. I suspect the 4-10 would be hit or miss, but after that your chances really rise, and once you hit the T15 you should be a near lock assuming the rest of your app is solid.

So, the upshot is that while I can’t say with any certainty *which* school would accept you, if you applied to a selection of them, I’d bet at least one in the T10 would give you an admit. As a side thought, outside the T14 you could be looking at some very generous financial aid offers. Something to think about if you are looking at taking on debt.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hi Jazmine,

Thanks for the message. This is a tough question because there is such a wide range of schools in play here (Northwestern is ranked #10, and Penn State-Dickinson is #65), and there isn’t a lot of data on applicants with your numbers at higher ranked schools. So, this is really like throwing darts to some extent.

Given that NW didn’t reject you, is certainly suggests you could apply to some more highly ranked schools, but the history of applicants with your numbers isn’t great inside the T30. I’d probably look in that range of T30 to T50 for schools with the best chances that are more highly ranked. But, in all honesty, no one can tell you what will happen or what the best call is here. there are too many open and unknown variables, and none of this discussion reflects any of YOUR preferences, which I consider to be essential to making a good decision.

Thanks!

Hi Larry,

At this point, this is totally normal. It simply is an indication that you are neither a slam dunk or automatic reject, and so the y are weighing you against other candidates. I’ve had applicants go down to the last day and then get admitted, so drawing conclusions at this point is premature 🙂

Hi Sophia,

I’m so glad to hear they have helped you so far!! That’s great news 🙂

First, the 160 doesn’t matter AT ALL. Schools have to report only the highest score these days, so that’s all they care about.

Second, with a 3.5/168, your chances at Georgetown and Northwestern are fairly similar: you probably have about 25-30% chance of a straight admit, then maybe a 30-35% chance of being waitlisted. Right now, it’s hard to tell with this cycle since the numbers seem to be trending upwards, making it harder to get admits. Everything else looks good with your softs and grade trend, so maybe a bit higher chances, but overall, a few points on the LSAT would do more for you than just about anything else!

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Hi Agna,

Thanks for the question! This case isn’t all that dissimilar from the reply I made to the 3.26/180 case above: “it’s really a total unknown as to what would happen.” Nothing in the T14 is anything near a lock, but your high LSAT score makes you an attractive candidate for schools that need high LSAT scores to offset some lower ones. That means it’s very school specific, and will depend on the nature of the pool of applicants each receives. One year Michigan might need more high LSATs, maybe the next year they don’t have that same pressure. I would suspect that you will get a lot of waitlists as T14 schools wait to see what develops in their pool.

From a percentage chance, I suppose the schools I’d take a shot at are: Columbia, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, Northwestern, and Georgetown. But remember, percentages are just that, and it only takes one person at one school to get you an acceptance 🙂

Without much for softs, just know that your personal statement has to be killer.

Good luck!

Hi N,

Thanks for the question! I usually use a mix of LSAC’s calculator and LSN data to get a better sense of the likely outcomes, and the thing is that the outcomes are often better than you expect IF you post a high LSAT score. high LSAT scores are “worth” more in this process than high GPAs, so every point in the 170s will make a difference for you.

You can see the LSAC data, so I won’t speak about that. The LSN data shows that over the last few years, the best outcomes (near 100%) from highly-ranked schools have been from WashU in St Louis and Notre Dame. They took everyone who applied in your range (but that said, these are only partial samples, not full data sets). Once you hit Minnesota at #23, it mostly becomes full admits with a few exceptions.

The biggest issue you face is that each year the pool at each school changes, so you can’t reliably predict which schools will need those higher LSATs scores and which will not. That means you may need to apply to a greater variety of schools than other applicants, but at least you know that going in.

And thanks for letting me know the books helped–that’s great news!

Please let me know if that answers your question. Thanks!

Hi KY,

Yes, both of those soft factors will provide small boosts to you. BME is less common as major for applicants than say political science, and anything that appears less frequently is a point of differentiation in your favor! Same for your military service—it comes up more frequently, but again it’s not a trait held by the majority of applicants. Now, will those two things serve to get you in? No, but in those all important situations where you are being compared to others, it will serve in your favor, and could be a final differentiating factor.

In the meantime, focus heavily on your LSAT score—that will have more of an effect on your app statues than anything else in your profile at this point!

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!