July 11, 2017

What 25th and 75th LSAT Score Percentiles Mean for Law School Admissions

With your LSAT score in hand, it’s time to consider what that number means for your admissions odds. Everyone knows that an LSAT score is almost universally prized above all other factors. It often counts more towards an acceptance than GPA, letters of rec, personal statement, and resume combined! Often several times more than that collective “other.” But exactly what does this number mean to the schools you intend to apply to? Let’s investigate.

Admissions Chances

I should start by noting that I consider this a companion piece to this excellent article. Definitely give it a read! What follows is an expansion on the numerical quantifiers law schools report to signify entrance based on LSAT score. The post fills in several critical details elsewhere, not least in suggesting that an analysis like the one below is equally applicable to GPA statistics. LSAT just happens to be on everyone’s mind at the moment, so it’s there that I’ll focus.

Each fall, law schools send their quantitative applicant matriculation data to the American Bar Association (the ABA), which then reviews the data as part of the accreditation process. You can read more about this process, and see the list of accredited schools here. The methodology has changed slightly over the years.

Specifically (or more numerically), the most commonly tallied LSAT figures are a school’s median LSAT score, 25th percentile score, and 75th percentile score for accepted applicants that chose to attend. These are also the ones you’ll encounter over and over in your research. Let’s look at each of those numbers.

Median LSAT

This is the most obvious, although not necessarily the most informative ¹. What this number tells you is the point that divides accepted applicants who enroll exactly in half. The number who enroll above this score is exactly the same as the number who enroll below it. There’s an extremely high correlation between median score and rank. Schools in the top 5 are all at or above 170, dropping all the way to a median of 160 for schools closer to 50th. Certainly, many factors go into rankings beyond LSAT scores, but it’s no coincidence that higher-ranked schools prefer higher-scoring attendees.

So what does a median score mean for you? Statistically, schools where your score is the median means, on score alone, you have a coin toss’s chance of acceptance. Presumably, that is the dividing line for yes and no. “Presumably” because these numbers apply to those who were accepted and chose to attend, not just those offered acceptance. Nothing to bank on, but not bad odds either. If you find yourself then very near your target school’s median, you need to do all you can to ensure the rest of your application is as good as it can be to tip the scales in your favor! ²

¹ That’s also why I hesitate to call a near-median score informative. It’s simply an aside at that point, where your acceptance hinges much more on everything else. Your LSAT is enough to open the door, but you’ll need to shine elsewhere if you want to stay in the room.

² It should come as no surprise that post-LSAT, the rest of your application takes center stage. It will figure prominently into the points made here.

25th Percentile

The math is much the same as with median, but the implications are quite different. In the same way that a median score divided attending applicants exactly in half, the 25th percentile splits them into a 1:3 ratio, where only one of four people with that score or lower got in and enrolled. It takes little imagination to recognize the peril here. In essence what an LSAT score at or around the 25th percentile for a school means is that you’re not out of contention—1 in 4 succeed from that position, after all—but it’s going to take something extra special to make the cut.

Essentially, as Anne puts it in the article linked above, you “have to write your way into the school, using your softs [non-LSAT and non-GPA] to try to convince AdComs [Admissions Committees] that you’d be a solid addition to their incoming class, despite your low numerical indicators.” This is no small feat. The rest of your application needs to be absolutely stellar to compensate for the fact that your score will potentially lower the school’s LSAT average. Consequently, this affects their ranking. It’s risky! Don’t forget, schools put so much weight on the LSAT largely because it’s considered a predictor of success in your first year. Coming in with an LSAT score lower than 75+ of your fellow 1Ls is some cause for concern among the administration.

Understand I don’t mean any of that to imply that you shouldn’t apply, or won’t get it in, or can’t succeed if you’re admitted! I only want to impress on you the reality of your situation and the necessity of an application that excels everywhere else. I typically encourage people to apply to a few “long shot” schools and a few safeties as well.

75th Percentile

This is a mirror image of the 25th percentile. 3 of every 4 applicants at or above are accepted and attend. There are few sure-things in law school admissions, but an LSAT score around a school’s 75th percentile marker makes “yes” an awfully good bet. To again borrow from Anne, following a performance of this caliber, “your job is to make sure your softs are good enough that they don’t ding you—in essence, you’re doing the opposite of what you’d be doing if your numbers are at or below the 25th percentile: You’re making sure you’re not writing your way out of the school.”

Just about the only thing you can do to get denied with a result in the top quarter of acceptances is to have something else on your application that negates the score. Sometimes that’s unavoidable. Again, it all hangs on the rest of your app. Although here it’s ensuring it doesn’t hurt you instead of relying on it to redeem your 25th percentile efforts. It should be unmistakably clear that all of this comes down to what you do next. How are you going to land on the favorable side of that median? Or be that 1/4 that overcomes the odds? Will it showcase all your hard work and make you outpace 3/4’s of your competition through the finish line? The answer, in every case, is that the remainder of your application needs to be perfect. You’re in the home stretch. Don’t blow it.

Finally, I want to make you aware of one of my favorite resources for researching data on nearly all of the ABA-approved schools in North America: LSAC’s LSAT/GPA Calculator. This tool allows you to input your undergraduate GPA and your highest LSAT score and get feedback on where each stands relative to attendees at individual schools. It also provides your odds of duplicating that result on those figures. It’s not a crystal ball of course, but it gives you a reasonably accurate estimation of how you’ll fare as you send off applications in the fall.

Tyler
July 08, 2016 at 9:10pm
My LSAT score is 165 while my GPA is a 3.9. I was wondering if the strength of my GPA would allow me to be closer to the 25th percentile of a school in terms of the LSAT?

Dave Killoran
July 09, 2016 at 10:26pm
Hi Tyler,
Thanks for the question! Your GPA and LSAT do offset each other, so a higher GPA compensates and allows you to have a lower LSAT score while maintaining the same overall chance of admission.
While GPA and LSAT are the two main hard factors in admissions, the LSAT is actually weighed more than GPA (trust me, I know it is crazy that a 4 hour test outweighs 4 years of schooling, but that is how it is). So, in the balance, a high GPA/low LSAT combination is less powerful than a high LSAT/low GPA combination. In other words, a high GPA offsets a lower LSAT, but not as much as if the situation were reversed. However, whereas GPA cannot be easily changed in a short amount of time, your LSAT score can. And since law schools only care about your highest score these days (see http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/should-you-retake-the-lsat-admissions-ex… for more info on that), you could retake the test. Even a single point higher would probably be worth it if you are looking at the T14 schools. In the final analysis, it really depends on the schools you are looking at as to what your chances are and what you should do.
Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Strater
October 19, 2016 at 2:32am
Do you think my LSAT of 165 and my low 2.82 overall GPA (but 3.68GPA in the last half of my degree) with a lot extra curriculars and being a college athlete with great references will give me a chance to get in anywhere decent?

Jon Denning
October 20, 2016 at 11:16pm
Well a lot of that depends on what you mean when you say “decent.” That LSAT is going to go a long way, but the GPA is a hurdle.
I’d certainly recommend writing an addendum explaining why the first few years’ grades were so low, so that will help. Then it’s a matter of emphasizing your other highlights: score, later academics, extracurriculars…and making sure your personal statement and letters of rec are super strong as well.
Will you go to a top 10 with those numbers? No, unfortunately they’re pretty inflexible. But plenty of schools that most people consider decent are still very much on the table if you present yourself in the right way 🙂

Dakota
October 24, 2016 at 5:01am
Could you explain splitters and how that affects chances of admittance? Specifically, I’m interested in going to a T14 school, my LSAT is 170 but GPA is 3.4. Let’s take University of Michigan (one of my top schools)… I am above their 75% LSAT, but below their 25% GPA. What does this do for my chances, given I have a good application otherwise?

Dave Killoran
October 24, 2016 at 2:41pm
Hey Dakota,
This is a good question, thanks! The situation with splitters is one that changes from school to school and from year to year. Essentially, they are affected by how the rest of the applicant pool at a particular school is shaping up, and thus the needs of the schools. Let’s use Michigan in a hypothetical example:
Let’s say that as they are working through he tapplicant pool this year, they have a number of highly attractive candidates with stellar GPAs, and their GPA averages are setting up to be even higher than usual. But, their LSAT average is a bit lower than usual. What can they do? Sure, they can go out and seek applicants who not only have a high GPA and also have a high LSAT, but those applicants are sought by every school, and in a sense you could begin to chase after a number of attractive candidates without landing any of them (you sometimes see this in sports when a team goes after a number of high profile players but signs none of them). So, this approach–chasing the cream of the cream, so to speak–is risky. Alternatively, you could use splitters to shore up the LSAT average. In this case, Michigan could decide to admit candidates who had LSAT scores higher than their usual median while knowingly sacrificing some of the GPA they had built up. This would lower the overall GPA–which would be fine if it was already higher than normal–while at the same time raising the LSAT average back up to usual levels.
Note that the utility of splitters here is high–they can help fix “problems” in the entering class. But, next year the situation might be different, and maybe GPA is low and needs to be fixed. Or maybe there are no issues at all and splitters aren’t needed in the numbers they were the prior year.
In the final analysis, no one knows what’s happening inside the applicant pool except the adcomms at each school, and so there’s no direct way to gauge what the chances are on your app. But, the higher your numbers are above the 75th percentile, typically the better (because it offsets more than a lower number). Because of this uncertainty, it’s also why it’s not unreasonable to take a chance on a school where you are a splitter. It just might be that they need your numbers, and you end up with an acceptance.
Bottom line: splitters can be highly desirable for law schools, but it changes every year. Because of this your admission chances are more volatile. Offset that by applying to more schools. And apply as early as you can. there’s a limit to how many splitters any one school will accept, and you want to be in that line as early as possible.
Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Sarah
January 04, 2017 at 2:35am
Hi there. Just got my December LSAT scores back and got lower than expected–154. I have a 3.7 GPA from UNC, am a college athlete and have great recs and resume. The score is lower than the 25% of my two top schools. Should I bother applying or is there no chance at this point?

Jon Denning
January 04, 2017 at 3:23am
Hi Sarah – sorry to hear that your score was lower than expected. I know it’s a bummer to start thinking about another attempt :/
Unfortunately if you’re below the 25th percentile for your target schools I’d say it’s a pretty long shot. Not impossible (!), especially with your other credentials, but those statistics don’t lie: odds are somewhat against you. So even if your “softs” (letters of rec, personal statement, resume) are strong, it’s awfully tough to pull up a sub-25% LSAT enough to make yourself a likely candidate for acceptance.
That said, the advice I always give people is to call schools and see what they say! Admissions offices are extremely helpful and will do all they can to give you the info you need to become the best applicant possible. They may tell you to roll the dice and see, or they may advise you to write an addendum (I’d advise this), or they may say it’s not looking good without a higher score. At any rate at least then you’d have heard it from the people who truly matter.
Sorry again about the score but let us know what schools say and we’ll take it from there! You’re not out of the running by any means 🙂

Joe
February 28, 2017 at 11:40pm
Hey Jon!
I have just received my LSAT score back and was hoping to get a quick opinion from someone like yourself…
I have gotten a 156 and a 3.2 GPA. I finished undergrad last May and have a decent resume with job experience, volunteer work, and leadership roles.
The school I want to go to has a median GPA of 3.4 and a median LSAT of 154. How do I stand? I am also working on letters of recommendation at the moment.
Thanks for any consideration!
Joe

Dave Killoran
March 06, 2017 at 1:08am
Hey Joe,
Thanks for the question. Jon is unavailable, so I thought I’d answer your question so you do not have to wait. You clearly have a shot since you are above the LSAT median and not too far below the GPA median. As far as exact chances, it’s 50-50 but only because we don’t know enough about the exact situation, and at this point, it’s the details that make the difference 🙂 How the school’s applicant pool is shaping up will have an effect, as well as the specifics of your personal statement and LORs. But, you have a chance so that’s good!

Tyosue charles
May 18, 2017 at 9:00pm
i want to get in to university and i have low mark in my jamb 2017 i have 160 pls help me.

Jon Denning
May 18, 2017 at 9:44pm
Hi Tyosue – thanks for the comment! I’m not entirely sure I understand what you’re asking/saying, however.
It sounds like you’ve scored (or are scoring) 160 on the LSAT, in which case congratulations, that’s a solid score!
The two things I’m unclear on, assuming I’m right about the score, are “i have low mark in my jamb 2017” and “i want to get in to university.” I’ll explain.
For the first bit about “jamb” I’ll be honest: I have no idea what that means 🙂 Can you perhaps clarify?
For the second about getting into schools, I’ll need some more information. What school(s) are you interested in? What’s your background/undergrad GPA? When are you thinking of applying? Have you taken the LSAT and, if so, is 160 your score (or something else)? Without that information–and likely much more–I can’t really speak with any authority on what you should be doing, what your next steps are, or what your odds of acceptance look like.
Let me know when you get a chance! Thanks!

Bree
July 17, 2017 at 4:21pm
Hi,
I am reconsidering retaking. I got a 168 and have a 3.9+ undergrad GPA from an Ivy League school. I am somewhat confident I could hit over 170+ if I retook it, only because I did significantly worse in one LR section (-6) because I really needed to use the restroom and it was right before the break. Would it be worth it to take again? I am looking at NYU/Duke/Berkeley, as well as Vandy and UT.
Thanks

Dave Killoran
July 18, 2017 at 2:48pm
Hi Bree,
Thanks for the question! I think you said it right in what you wrote: ” I am somewhat confident I could hit over 170+ if I retook it.” If that’s the case, and with a 3.9+ GPA, you owe it to yourself to make another run. If you can get into the 170s, with that GPA you’d be looking at more acceptances and highly-ranked schools as well as better financial offers from each school. Since you believe you can do it, I see no reason why you shouldn’t go for it again.
Thanks and please let us know if we can help in any way!

Ray Ray
July 19, 2017 at 11:26pm
Hello i have a lsat score of 160 and a GPA of 2.9 out of 5.0 from nigeria tho..Am thinking of applying to law schools in canada.Do i have a shot at this?Thanks

Jon Denning
July 20, 2017 at 12:44am
Hi Ray Ray – that’s a good question, and to be honest I’m not entirely certain of the answer! From the LSAT perspective I can tell you that your score is below the medians for University of British Columbia, University of Calgary, University of Toronto, University of Victoria, and University of Western Ontario, so those schools are going to be a stretch no matter what. You’re very near, or even above, the median LSATs at Dalhousie, McGill, Queen’s University, University of Manitoba, University of New Brunswick, University of Saskatchewan, and York, so those are a higher likelihood.
My uncertainty arises from exactly how Canadian schools will treat a Nigerian 2.9 GPA (out of 5), as that will definitely play a factor…but I don’t know how large of one, or how much it’s working for or against you in the eyes of admissions committees.
So my advice here is to call each/every school to which you’d like to apply and ask them how your credentials will be viewed, and what else (if anything) might be required of you as an applicant. They may also be able to provide some advice on how valuable an LSAT retake and higher score might be, so be sure to ask that as well!
I hope that helps!

Alplato Chukpue-Padmore
August 04, 2017 at 4:25am
Hi. I have a 4.0 GPA and I just completed my LSAT but my score ridiculously low. I have a 138. I know I have to take the test over, But the School I want to attend has a median LSAT score of 153 and a 3.2 GPA. Were do I stand?

Jon Denning
August 04, 2017 at 9:57pm
Hey Alplato – thanks for the question! I’ll be candid with you (since there’s no point in beating around the bush): that’s almost certainly–as in 99%–not going to be enough to get you in.
The GPA is obviously a plus, but with an LSAT score in the 130s you’re an extremely hard candidate for any school to accept, and essentially impossible for schools with a median 15 points higher than your number.
Certainly you can call the school directly and explain your situation to get a sense of where you might stand (they may not tell you a firm “no” but you’ll at least get an impression of the likely outcome), but I strongly suspect you’re facing one of two choices–apply to lower-credential schools, or retake the LSAT.
The retake option is what I would advise, as another 10-12 points–which is absolutely attainable with proper prep and additional, diligent study–should be enough to get you into your target school without a fuss! So whether that happens in September or December (my recommendation), get started now, pick up the right tools whether that’s a course, and On Demand study program, or pure self-study with the LSAT Bibles, and keep at it!
You’ll find more info on the best prep options available here: http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/
And as always let us know if you have any question!

Jennifer
August 20, 2017 at 5:19pm
Hello and thank you for this post, it was quite informative.
I am from Canada and currently just graduated with a cumulative GPA of 3.17. Most of the Canadian schools I know take the last 20 courses for GPA, I will then have 3.47. Unfortunately the average GPA is too high (I want to go to the University of Calgary, which was 3.63 in 2016 and LSAT average of 162). However, I was told by other peers that I would have a higher chance if applied outside of Canada. I was wondering if this is true for American law schools. I have not written my LSAT yet, I plan to write it this December and aim for a score of 165+.
If I get a score of 165 on the LSAT and with a cGPA of 3.17, which American law schools would I have a chance with? I am also considering applying to City University New York (CUNY).
Thank you!

Jon Denning
August 21, 2017 at 12:26am
Hi Jennifer – thanks for the questions, and I’m happy to hear you found this post helpful!
The LSAT tends to be the more crucial factor for schools (vs GPA), so if you’re applying with a GPA viewed as 3.47 to a school with an average GPA of 3.63, you’re likely close enough to gain admission provided you can be at/above their 75th percentile for LSAT. In looking at Calgary’s site I don’t see 75th percentile info for LSAT listed, but I suspect it’s probably about a 166 or so. Simply put: if you can hit a ~165+ I think you may have a decent shot at Calgary. Granted, only about 1/10 applicants enroll (meaning acceptance odds on the whole aren’t great), but I still suspect you’d have a reasonable chance of acceptance.
As for US schools, the best tool to use is LSAC’s GPA/LSAT calculator: https://officialguide.lsac.org/release/ugpalsat/ugpalsat.aspx
With that you can enter your GPA (this is probably going to be the 3.17 number) and prospective LSAT scores to see what odds you get for the schools whose numbers are included. That should give you at least a decent sense of how things are likely to go with various LSAT results.
Lastly, keep in mind that nothing is ever certain when it comes to admissions, so these numbers are always just best guesses. Exceptions occur (favorable and not), so take some chances and also keep a few safety schools in mind as you start to apply.
But above all know that your LSAT score is going to be the singular piece opening doors or keeping them closed (not to mention scholarships) so put your full effort and attention into that, whether it means a course or private tutoring, leave nothing to chance! And let us know what we can do to help get you to the number you need 🙂

Rosie
September 18, 2017 at 5:39pm
Hi Jon,
I know this is a really old post, but I’m in post-LSAT obsession mode, so I figured I’d read a bunch of archived ones.
Question about percentiles: I’d always assumed 25th and 75th percentiles referred to the students attending the given Law School, not to each and every student granted admission to the given Law School. Am I incorrect? Seems like these two groups of students might yield significantly different numbers.

Jon Denning
September 20, 2017 at 5:43pm
Hey Rosie – thanks for the question! I’ve edited the article above to make the process more clear: you’re correct that it’s admitted applicants who then decide to attend.
You’re also correct about the nature of the two groups——those accepted vs those who enroll——in that information about the former would be far more useful than only getting data on the people who choose to attend the school in question. But regrettably the reporting system only provides info on attendees.
Hope that helps to clarify things!

Carman Ross
October 12, 2017 at 4:44am
My GPA is a 3.8 and my LSAT is rather low, a 148. The school I want to go to (South Texas College of Law) 25th-75th percentile LSAT is 148-152; the 25th-75th percentile GPA is 2.8- 3.3. My LSAT is within the range, even though it is on the lower end and my GPA is exceptionally high. To add to that, I am in a sorority, I have had three different internships in the legal field, I have ALOT of community service experience at the university’s daycare center, I am an officer of Phi Alpha Delta Pre-law Fraternity, competed in the PAD mock trial competition for three years, and I am in two different honor societies. I put my numbers into the calculator on LSAC and my predicted likelihood is between a 78%-90% chance of acceptance. I know that this is a high probability, but should in consider this a promising chance?

Jon Denning
October 12, 2017 at 4:57am
Hi Carman – yes, I’d say that’s very promising, particularly if the rest of your application is solid: great letters of rec, strong/polished personal statement, and so on.
I think you’d also find that if you could get that LSAT score up even 3-5 more points (to the high end of their range), which is roughly the statistical average that retakers at that level tend to improve, you’d find yourself not only a lock but also very likely to be offered substantial scholarships. So that could make a retake well worth it!
Let us know what you decide and how we can help you out!

Taha
October 12, 2017 at 6:10am
HI there, my undergrad GPA is 3.27 and my LSAT score was 161. I’ve also attended graduate school (with a GPA of 3.76 although I’ve read that they don’t care about that), and I have a few years of work experience. What sort of chance do you think I have at T20-30 schools? I’m trying to determine my reach, target, and safety picks and am struggling a bit to figure out how to choose. I notice I tend to be in the 25-75th percentile range for LSAT scores but have a lower GPA.
Also, do you suggest I write an addendum explaining my undergrad GPA?
Thank you!

Carman Ross
October 12, 2017 at 1:03pm
Thank you, that was very helpful and reassuring. I actually just retook the LSAT in September and was disappointed to find that my score did not increase, so I am feeling a bit discouraged and I am not sure if I want to retake it, since I feel like I hit my plateau. Do you think that I should take it a third time? I am able to wait until as late as February for South Texas admissions.

Jenna
October 13, 2017 at 2:09am
Hi Jon! I have an undergraduate GPA of 3.6 from the University of Illinois and just scored a 160 on the September LSAT. I also (regrettably) took the December 2016 LSAT with very little prep and received a 152. I really want to go to a top 20 school and I am already registered to take the December LSAT to give myself one last shot at getting a score that will improve my chances. What, if any, score do you think would make a top 20 school a target school for me? I know that my GPA is on the lower end of the spectrum so I am wondering if I am being unrealistic/should reassess myself when it comes to the list of schools that I want to apply to. Thanks in advance for your help!

Jon Denning
October 13, 2017 at 5:53am
I would definitely plan to take it again, and probably in December as I think 2 more months could well be enough. With that GPA another 4-6 points would make a huge difference, so for sure keep at it, and it’s not like Feb is off the table if you find your PTs still aren’t where you want the week or so before December (you can withdraw and schools won’t even know you were signed up).
Plateaus are usually artificial: people just need to find a different/better way to prep to break through! Get some different books, take a course, grab a few tutoring hours…something to jumpstart you and help you keep growing.
You can even apply now with your numbers, which should be enough, but let them know you’re considering a retake to boost your LSAT and perhaps negotiate scholarships, then keep practice testing and prepping to see if your numbers are higher in the next few months. If so, go for it! If not, nothing lost as you’ll likely get in as-is anyway (and the school can give you a better sense of that if you ask them directly).
My two cents 🙂

Jon Denning
October 13, 2017 at 6:08am
Hi Taha – thanks for posting! This is tricky, because the broader the range/number of schools, the tougher it is to say definitively how they’ll behave: schools are often pretty singular to begin with; talk 10-12 at once and suddenly there’s even less consensus.
Still, I think you’ll find that GPA (undergrad) to be a bit of a hindrance, despite the improved grad GPA (which yeah sadly they pay much less attention to). It’s not a deal-breaker necessarily but I’d feel a lot better about things if you could bump that LSAT score another few points, even 4-5. That would really help to offset things around the high teens and low twenties, and make you an attractive scholarship candidate at those a little lower-ranked.
An addendum can help (if done right it certainly won’t hurt), but something I’d strongly consider in your shoes would be a retake. I’d sign up for December and keep prepping (harder/more than this go-round if you can) and see if you can get that number up a bit. If so, you’ll be awfully glad you did, and I suspect (as is the case with most people) you’ve still got some points to gain.
Another tool I adore for this sort of speculation is LSAC’s GPA/LSAT calculator: https://officialguide.lsac.org/release/ugpalsat/ugpalsat.aspx
You can enter your data there and see what results you get for a number of different schools, and then play with the LSAT to watch the odds change. It’s not perfect of course–other factors play a role as well, as you know–but it’s a good estimator in most cases.
Let us know if you want to dive back into prep and how we can help you out!

Jon Denning
October 13, 2017 at 11:56pm
Hi Jenna – well first I wouldn’t worry about that 152, as schools really won’t care about that. So it’s just a matter of what a 160/3.6 might mean (your current best-case) for schools, versus what begins to happen as you climb to 163…165…168, and beyond.
I’ve posted this elsewhere in these comments, but one of my favorite tools for that sort of investigation is LSAC’s LSAT/GPA calculator: https://officialguide.lsac.org/release/ugpalsat/ugpalsat.aspx
With it you can enter your GPA and then play around with different LSAT scores to gauge your odds of acceptance to the majority of schools out there! Of course, there are more factors at play than just those two numbers–you can do yourself some additional favors with a great personal statement, letters of rec, etc–and not every school reports data in the way LSAC wants to use it so you may find some targets that aren’t included in their calculator. But it’ll give you a good idea of roughly where you stand.
If I’m a betting man I’d wager you hit better-than-50%-chance at at least a few schools once you reach a 165 or 166. At 167-169 you’ve got a lot more options, probably no fewer than 8-10 of the top 20 are at least realistic. Well into the 170s of course everything but maybe the top 3-4 schools are on the table.
So this is all about your next LSAT score.
Prep like crazy and don’t leave anything to chance, whether that means a tutor or a class–there’s a real opportunity here but it hinges almost entirely on one number. Fortunately that’s also the factor most within your control at this point, so look at this as a blessing! Your GPA isn’t changing. Your LSAT can!
Let us know how we can help!

Jenna
October 14, 2017 at 2:03pm
Hi John, thanks for your response! For the prepping like crazy part – I just ordered all of the powerscore materials for the 1.5 month self study plan listed on your website. Do you think this will be enough? I am hesitant to do a tutor/class because I hired a tutor last year and, after charging a me a ridiculous amount of money, he blew me off completely by bailing on sessions and never sticking to the initial schedule he had sent me.

Dave Killoran
October 14, 2017 at 7:59pm
Hi Jenna,
Just to address the tutor concern you have, that should not have happened to you! One of the benefits of working with a company like PowerScore is that we won’t accept that kind of behavior from tutors, and would both sideline that tutor and reassign you to a new one. Maintaining our superior reputation depends on student happiness, and we bend over backwards to make things run smoothly and to keep students happy. So, at least on that point, you need not worry with us.
On your time question, 6 weeks is a very fast schedule, and the LSAT Bibles contain a massive amount of information. A tutor would definitely help speed up your absorption and use of the techniques and information. If you can afford it, I always recommend it!
Thanks!

Cata Rojas
October 25, 2017 at 3:55am
Hi there,
I have a 169 and a 3.82 from an Ivy League school. Jon and/or Dave, do you have any thoughts on retaking the LSAT in December if my dream school is Stanford? Is taking the LSAT that late into the application cycle a big disadvantage?
Thanks!

Jon Denning
October 25, 2017 at 4:54am
Hi Cata – thanks for the questions! Honestly with a 3.82 from an Ivy you have a realistic shot at Stanford, but only——again if we’re talking legit likelihood——if you get that LSAT score up.
Dave wrote a great article today in fact on who should retake the LSAT (http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/who-should-retake-the-lsat) and I think you fall squarely into both groups 2 and 3 (and possibly 4): I suspect with a few more months of prep you could pull another 3-4+ points; your score/credentials are great, but probably still too low for Stanford; and if that’s really your target school then all signs point to a retake!
The good news here, aside from the clear choice you face, is that December is absolutely not too late in the cycle for ANY school, especially these days when applicant number are still at near-historical lows. Schools aren’t under the same pressure to start churning through them as they were 7-8 years ago, so they tend to start the evaluation process later, and are much more open to apps received in January and beyond. A number of top schools these days will even take the June exam for admission in the same year, 2-3 months later (http://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-top-50-law-schools-accept-the-june…), and I suspect we’ll continue to see that number grow!
So December is a fine test to apply competitively with. Just buckle down these next five weeks, consider getting yourself a tutor (https://www.powerscore.com/lsat/tutoring/) or embarking on another intensive course of prep (our On Demand Course and Advanced Courses could do the trick: https://www.powerscore.com/lsat/courses/), and leave nothing to chance in December! You manage a 172 or higher and suddenly you’re an extremely likely admit to Stanford next fall 🙂

Jessica Smith
January 04, 2018 at 9:10pm
Hi Jon,
I’m in a limbo, trying to decide whether or not to take the February 2018 LSAT. I scored 155 on the December 2017 test, and the median at my target school is 157. My GPA is in the 75 percentile.
I know there is a risk to taking the test again; your score could go down, but more hopefully up. If the 25th percentile is 154, doesn’t that mean that 25% of enrolled students scored 155 or 156 (like me)? I have a strong resume and great letters of recommendation. The LSAC calculator puts me at a 68%-90% chance of admission based on 2016 data. Is a 155 enough to “open the door” so the rest of my application can shine? Thanks so much!

Jon Denning
January 05, 2018 at 2:57am
Hi Jessica – thanks for the question! The short answer: yes, a score above the 25th percentile and a GPA at the 75th will absolutely “open the door” and get you serious consideration for admission. With excellent “softs” (letters of rec, personal statement, resume, etc) you have a better than even shot at getting in, as the calculator shows.
Another great pair of resources for predicting admission are: http://mylsn.info/ytqczk/ and https://jscalc.io/calc/zt21YwP4hMpgFuoT
They function similarly to the LSAC calculator, where you enter your info (or a range including it, such as 154-156 for LSAT) and can see what others with your credentials experienced. Collectively they’ll give you a pretty solid sense of what’s likely to occur…with the obvious caveat that every cycle is a little different, softs do matter, and perhaps above all the admissions game is never black and white or wholly predictable, so keep in mind that educated guesses are still guesses when you’re near the fence (as you appear to be).
Since you mention retaking and the consequences of that, I’ll make a quick couple of points there too. First, schools only care about your highest score, so even if you took it again in Feb–which is only possible if you’ve already signed up, btw; the enrollment deadline has passed at this point–and dropped schools will still treat you as a 155. So no real risk from that perspective. Second, given the still-low application numbers schools are experiencing these days, Feb is no longer considered “super late” in the cycle. So a 157+ in Feb would more than justify the retake and later application! Finally, beyond just getting in there’s the cost factor to consider, so while you’re probably going to be admitted with your current numbers it’s unlikely you’d be offered much in the way of scholarships. That may not matter in your case, but I know for a lot of people that’s a huge component of their decision, in which case they (and perhaps you) would need to retake to get some financial aid. Just a thought 🙂
So ultimately I think you’re in great shape no matter what! You’re more likely than not to get in from the sound of things, and if you do retake in Feb then it’s either a lower score which won’t matter, or a higher score which all but locks you as an admit and possibly secures some money, too.
Hope that helps!

Emily Backman
January 15, 2018 at 7:48pm
Hi there,
My name is Emily and I am a junior undergrad
I have decided to go to law school and I really want to go to UCLA for environmental law which is fairly competitive. I haven’t taken the LSAT yet but my GPA is low, 3.47, which hopefully I can improve
a few questions for you
A. I am a double major who will (all things going well) graduate with a B.S. in ecological and environmental Science and a b.a. in English. will this help me be more competitive?
B. My worst grades were in math and math based science classes (calculus and chemistry) which don’t directly apply to law school. do you think its worth pointing this out on my application?
c. I’m standing currently at the 25th percentile gpa-wise. If Ii were to achieve UCLA’S 75th percentile LSAT score would that sort of average out to a median gpa?
thank you!

Dave Killoran
January 20, 2018 at 8:32pm
Hi Emily,
Thanks for the questions! I’m a big fan of UCLA, and used to live right near campus. It’s a great school, but it is competitive, so let’s talk about your questions:
A. The BS will help a bit because it’s different (most law applicants come in with a BA only), but overall it won’t be a game changer. LSAT and GPA still dominate the process, but you can use your major as a basis for your environmental law aspirations, so the fit is nice.
B. No, I’d leave it alone. It is very difficult to explain lower grades in general, and you don’t want to come off as though you are making excuses. Being sick, or having family be sick or pass away are the kind of explanations they see, so trying to make the case that “they don’t apply to law school” won’t compare well. And, in any event, the school still has to report your GPA so rather sadly they don’t care much why it happened unless the reason is *very* compelling.
C. Yes, it would help, and the higher you can go, the better. Applicants with a high LSAT/low GPA combination (relatively speaking, of course) are called Splitters: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/what-are-law-school-splitters-reverse-s…. And the two numbers do work to offset each other, so a high LSAT is something you should focus on.
In the grand scheme of things, if you are going to be a splitter, you want to be what you are looking at: lower GPA, higher LSAT. That is because the LSAT is valued more than the GPA in the admissions process, and so they are more prone to take someone with a very high LSAT score since they get fewer of those than they do of applicants with high GPAs.
In the case we are talking about, every point on your LSAT score will make a difference. Hitting 75th percentile on the LSAT (168) would still leave you at between 34-49% chance at UCLA according to LSAC. Hitting a 169 with the same GPA takes you to 41-57%, and hitting 170 would take you to 48-64%. In other words, each point there increases your admission chances by about 7-8%. And, the higher your LSAT, typically the better your financial aid offer 🙂
Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Stephanie
July 11, 2018 at 6:24am
Hi,
I have a 3.94 GPA from a state university, but I am a horrible test taker. I have been practicing and studying for the LSAT for months but my PT scores are consistently 156. I really want to go to a top school, but just don’t know what my chances are with an LSAT score so low despite my high GPA. What are my chances of getting into a T 14 or even T 20 school with these stats? Might have to consider applying next application cycle to get my LSAT up if they’re not too likely. Just wanted to see what you thought.
Thanks!

Jon Denning
July 11, 2018 at 6:19pm
Hi Stephanie – thanks for posting!
Admissions prediction is always something of a tricky business, as very few situations can be estimated with a ton of certainty, but I think in this case it’s likely safe to say most, if not all, top 20 schools are going to struggle taking a 156, even with your stellar GPA. And if they do I’d say it’s extremely unlikely that they offer along with the invite (making it an awfully expensive gamble).
So you don’t have to take my word for it, there’s a great tool that I use often called my lsn (law school numbers) where you can enter your credentials and see how others with those same numbers have fared in recent years. The site is here: http://mylsn.info/ytqczk/
I’d enter 3.9-4.0 for GPA, and 155-156 (or even 154-157) for LSAT, and search applicants back to 2015-2016 or so. What you’ll find is that there are some acceptances for those numbers! But the odds aren’t better than about 30-35% until you get to about the 18th to 22nd ranked schools, where people had more success.
So you’re certainly not out of the running, but it’s going to be a long shot at most schools in the top 20.
This current application cycle hasn’t started yet, and there are at least three more tests you can still register for (September, November, and January…and likely next March too) to apply for a start next fall. So my advice here is to get signed up for either September or November (or both) and give it another go! Statistically your score is likely to increase, especially if you keep prepping, so it’s well worth another attempt given your GPA and target schools!
One thing you might find super helpful for the next couple of months of prep is our On Demand Course: https://www.powerscore.com/lsat/courses/on-demand/
It comes with nearly 40 hours of recorded lessons, plus an extra 50 or so video hours on conceptual supplements, strategies (like speed), test mentality, and a host of other things central to a top score. It’s also pre-recorded meaning you could pick and choose what you want to work on, instead of being in a live class where you’re married to the syllabus and moving at the group’s pace. This is far more flexible and customizable so perfect for someone who’s already familiar with the test and their own strengths and weaknesses, and for someone looking to score at the very highest levels it now includes a number of the discussion points you’d find in the Advance Course too (I’ll explain: I recently taught an online course and as a bonus for students I hosted three open-ended “office hours” type sessions for lessons 1-4, 5-8, and then 9-12 where I talked about a huge number of those 170+ type ideas…it came to something like 10 hours in total, and we’ve just added those to the course’s student center for anyone to watch, so you’ll see some top-level discussion that wasn’t previously included).
It also comes with our full course materials, including every LSAT question and the newest tests, and my favorite feature: access to our LSAT Instructor Hotline where every Mon-Fri afternoon while you’re enrolled you can call our main office number and speak live with an instructor to get any problems you’re having resolved. So there’s basically free tutoring included with the course, with real-time help just a call away. That’s such a helpful tool to supplement the videos with, especially as you take the most recent tests and have questions from them.
So that gets my vote given your score and timeline! Let me know if you have any questions or if I can help further!

Anna
August 23, 2018 at 5:22pm
Hi there!
I know this post is old, but I thought I’d give posting a question a shot. I am currently a 4th year with a 3.8 GPA from a state school. I am taking the LSAT in September (and probably November) and have been scoring in the 160’s, but I feel confident that I could get to the low 170’s by November. What do you think my chances are for top schools with this?
*If it helps, my GPA was lowered by one semester of low (3.23) grades due to a concussion.

Dave Killoran
August 23, 2018 at 6:21pm
Hi Anna,
Thanks for the question! The exact chances will change tremendously based on where you LSAT score lands, and a 166 is a totally different set of outcomes compared to a 170.
That said, if you posted a 170, you’d be looking at a very low chance for the T6 (and basically no chance at the T3), a reasonable chance at the rest of the schools in the T14 (with some exceptions), and then great chances at every school from about 13 on down. you’d very likely get into more than one T14 school and get a decent financial aid package with numbers like that 🙂
Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

Jon Denning
August 23, 2018 at 6:24pm
Hi Anna – thanks for posting! In short, your odds are very good if you’re able to score in the high 160s or low 170s! One site I love for this kind of thing is called My Law School Numbers: http://mylsn.info/ytqczk/
There you can enter your GPA (enter a range of 3.7 to 3.9) and LSAT score and see how candidates with those same credentials fared in years past. So if you input that GPA range and a 170 (a range of 169-171), say, you’ll be able to see precisely what happened at top schools to people who applied with those numbers, and you’ll note that on the whole they were frequently accepted at nearly all of the top-14 options. Obviously schools like Yale, Harvard, and Stanford are always going to be a tough admit, but even there you’d have a reasonable chance of success 🙂
I hope that helps, and let us know if there’s anything we can do to help get you into the 170s!

Shawna S
October 01, 2018 at 6:41am
Hello!
I was wondering if you could help piece together my situation. I have a high GPA (3.9+), and I took the LSAT twice. The first time I got a 166, but since I decided on a gap year I thought it would be a good idea to re-take to work for a higher score. Unfortunately, I dropped by 4 points. Resources claim that law schools pay more attention to the higher score, but is that true if the second score is lower? Is that kind of drop extremely detrimental?
Thanks for your time!

Dave Killoran
October 02, 2018 at 12:57am
Hi Shawna,
The good news here is that all the experts agree that only the high score matters, and it doesn’t matter when you got it. If you can achieve a certain score, you ARE that score. To coin an example, is Usain Bolt known for his fastest time, or the time he ran last week? His record time is of course what he’s known for, and in the same way, law schools know you by your high score 🙂
This might help explain further: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/do-law-schools-average-lsat-scores-or-u…
Thanks!

Andrew
December 12, 2018 at 6:23am
Greetings Jon and Dave!
How am I looking with a 4.06-4.1 GPA (from an Ivy undergraduate school, if it matters) with a 172 LSAT (taken once)? Should I use the month of December to (a) relentlessly work on applications or (b) hold off, retake the LSAT in January, and submit then for schools like Harvard, Stanford, and Yale?
It’s very kind of you all do this. Your help is much appreciated.

Jon Denning
December 13, 2018 at 7:50pm
Hi Andrew- thanks for posting! Short answer is you’re looking excellent 🙂 Applying to those three is always something of a guessing game, since admission to places like Harvard and Yale is rarely a certainty, but I’d say smart money is on you getting in to at least one.
One site I’ve found to be really valuable in making these types of predictions is mylawschoolnumbers: https://mylsn.info/ytqczk/
Enter an LSAT range of 171-173, and GPA of 3.9-4.1 or so, set the years as 2015 to the present, and take a look at the results you get (you can also adjust things like underrepresented minority, early decision, etc, but I tend to just leave those as-is to get the full scope of outcomes). What I’m seeing is that Yale and Stanford are perhaps a coin toss, while Harvard looks very promising.
Keep in mind too that these numbers are student-reported, so ultimately unverified. I’ve found them to be pretty reliable over the years, but I can’t claim them as gospel…so treat them accordingly.
The retake consideration in all of this, to me at least, comes down to: if you are, or can be, routinely testing at 175+ on recent exams under strict conditions, then chances are good you haven’t hit your full potential and should sit again. But if a 172 was representative of how you’d been scoring after intensive prep and you feel uncertain about improving—you’ve prepped hard and plateaued, say—then focus on apps instead. For most people, even at this stage in the cycle, a retake is well worth it, but only you can make the call on just how likely you feel improvement is…2 or more points higher would seal it as a clear retake decision, but I don’t know enough about how representative your 172 is to make a strong push. In short: your GPA leaves you in an incredibly enviable, powerful position, so don’t let your LSAT score hold you back if it seems clear it could be higher with another attempt! But if that feels unlikely then move forward knowing you’re still in great shape 🙂
I hope that helps!

About Jon Denning

Jon Denning is PowerScore's Vice President and oversees product creation and instructor training for all of the exam services PowerScore offers. He is also a Senior Instructor with 99th percentile scores on the LSAT, GMAT, GRE, SAT, and ACT.

Jon is widely regarded as one of the world's foremost authorities on LSAT preparation, and for the past decade has assisted thousands of students in the law school admissions process. He has also created/co-created a number of PowerScore’s LSAT courses and publications, including the Reading Comprehension Bible, the In Person, Live Online, and On Demand LSAT Courses, the Advanced Logic Games Course, the Advanced Logical Reasoning Course, and a number of books in PowerScore’s popular LSAT Deconstructed Series.

Comments

Ben says
June 12, 2024 at 7:19 pm
Hi and thank you for the post! They have given me a lot of clarity so far in my application process 🙂
I studied hard for the lsat and took it twice, receiving a 164 then a 167. I have a 3.98 GPA and I am confident in the softs of my application. I know that those numbers, however, make me a reverse splitter for a lot of highly ranked schools and that worries me. I would really love to go to a top 20 school like Georgetown, Minnesota, or Vanderbilt, but I am concerned because I fall below the median lsat scores. I have been checking my placement on law school numbers like you recommended above, and there are certainly students with my metrics that are accepted, but never as many as those closer to the median lsat obviously. What are your thoughts on my chances at schools in this bracket, and how would you recommend I bolster my application?
I keep seeing people say that retaking the lsat to improve your score, even by a point can be a huge boon, but I was pretty dispirited after studying from january to april this year only to improve by 3 points. Furthermore I have not done any studying since I took the april exam and I am concerned that taking the exam wouldn’t guarantee a score increase since they are changing the exam format so much for August. I plan to send my applications asap in september, but what are your thoughts on taking the lsat again with the new format?
Thank you so so much for your help 🙂
Reply
- Dave Killoran says
  July 15, 2024 at 2:22 pm
  Hi Ben,
  As for your chances, it really depends on what each school needs in their admissions cycle, which irritatingly changes every single year! If the schools on your list need more high GPAs, you’ll do well. If they don’t, you’ll struggle when your LSAT is below median.
  As for the retake, since it’s a been a while, take one of the new format LSATs and see how you do (one you haven’t seen). Whether or not you retake is all about your PT track record and how the new format works for you. It may be great or it may not be–I can’t see into your score history and performance to know for sure. Was LG a strength for you? If so this new format won’t help you most likely.
  Thanks!
  Reply
Andrew says
June 21, 2021 at 7:52 pm
Hello,
Would applying ED to a school, in my case Notre Dame, with a LSAT score just above the school’s 25th percentile and a GPA just under the school’s 75th percentile perhaps make acceptance more likely than not?
Reply
- Dave Killoran says
  June 22, 2021 at 7:42 pm
  Hi Andrew,
  Thanks for the message. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t say so, especially with this upcoming cycle. Your splitter numbers will put you in contention, but through no fault of your own you are dealing with the worst two-year admissions cycle in history. Notre Dame overenrolled this year, so some of those students will defer into next year, and the pool next year is already looking to be highly competitive due to the LSAT scoring bubble. So, the ED will be a nice plus and tell ND that you do want to be there, but I bet they are very cagey next admissions period, and I don’t see them taking many splitters in ED. I suspect instead they’ll move you into the RD pool, but you will carry the ED bonus there and then it will all depend on the spaces they have and their applicant pool. Side note: expect an increase in their LSAT median due to the numbers this year.
  Thanks!
  Reply
Barry S. says
October 22, 2020 at 12:33 am
Hi,
The content on this feed is really terrific. Thank you for all the years of upkeep and all the time and effort you guys have put into this.
I took the LSAT-Flex this past August having high hopes, yet only scored a 156. I’m not such a good standardised test taker, but I signed up to take the November LSAT-Flex. I really want to go to Northwestern, but I feel that no amount of soft skills can compensate for that score, even my two bachelors which have a 3.96 and 3.95 GPA, respectively. Any thoughts on the minimum LSAT score I would need to get in?
Reply
- Dave Killoran says
  October 22, 2020 at 4:53 pm
  Hi Barry,
  Thanks for the kind words!
  You are right to be concerned that the soft factors won’t overcome your LSAT score. Looking at it historically, I’d say you need a 166 to get into serious contention, and a 168 or higher to really put yourself in the “high likelihood” category. there are some exceptions, of course, but in general that’s what the numbers there suggest.
  So, if you feel like you are up for it, I’d go back for another bite at the LSAT apple here. Sorry to convey that :/
  If we can help, just let us know. Thanks!
  Reply
  - Barry S. says
    October 25, 2020 at 10:05 pm
    Thank you so much!
    Reply
Jennifer George says
July 2, 2020 at 2:19 am
Hi!
Thank you so much for this article, it really helped clarify a lot of questions I have been grappling with. I am Canadian, hoping to get into law school here and I have taken the LSAT four times (In hindsight I should have taken it way less and studied more in between) and my highest score is 158. My GPA is 3.76. I really want to get into University of Calgary or University of Alberta but the median score is 161.
I am planning to give it one more shot because in practice I am scoring much higher now in the 160’s range. But then it will be my fifth time. I am not sure what is the wisest decision, as 158 with four attempts and not that stellar of GPA doesn’t look that great on paper either. As of now, I am more convinced that I should make one last attempt and and try to reach the 160’s and write an addendum if need be.
Any advice on the best course of action would be greatly appreciated as I am going back and forth between taking the exam again vs. trying to apply with what I have.
Thanks so much for all you guys do,
Jennifer
Reply
Musha says
November 24, 2019 at 11:33 am
Hi!
I have 3.58 GPA for bachelor’s degree in law and 3.8 GPA for master’s degree in law both from a Russian university. Which one of them will be considered by LSAC and by law schools? Do I have any chances for top 5 law schools? P.s. I have not taken LSAT yet, but planning to do it.
Thanks in advance.
Reply
- Jon Denning says
  November 24, 2019 at 10:14 pm
  Hi Musha – thanks for the questions!
  Law schools care almost exclusively about undergraduate grades, since those are the only numbers that all applicants tend to have in common, so expect that they’ll be focused far more on your 3.58 bachelor’s GPA, rather than the 3.8 from your masters. That 3.8 will still be noted—and appreciated!—but it’s really the 3.58 that will be the determining factor as they consider you for admission.
  With that in mind, I’ll be frank: it’s going to be tough to get into a top 5 school. A 3.58 is below the 25th percentile at each of the schools ranked 1-5, with the closest being Columbia and a 25th percentile of 3.63.
  But it isn’t impossible! The key, the only serious hope really, is scoring extremely well on the LSAT. If you can get an LSAT score above those schools’ 75th percentile—meaning somewhere in the mid170s in all likelihood—then you become what’s known as a splitter and have a far more realistic shot at getting in. To read more on the splitter situation, check these links out:
  https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/what-are-law-school-splitters-reverse-splitters-super-splitters/
  https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly/
  So don’t lose hope! Just study like crazy to make sure your LSAT score is as high as possible…meaning look into investing in a course and/or some tutoring, as that time and effort can pay you back in a HUGE way both in acceptances and scholarships.
  I hope that helps!
  Reply
Alex says
November 3, 2019 at 7:31 am
Hi there,
I have a 154 LSAT and a 3.48 GPA. I’m thinking about LSU, which according to their ABA Required disclosures, has had a median LSAT of 154 for the past few years. However, on the school’s website, it says that their new entering class has a median LSAT of 155, and median GPA of 3.48. Are my GPA and LSAT good enough?
Reply
- Dave Killoran says
  November 13, 2019 at 2:28 pm
  Hi Alex,
  Your numbers are certainly in the running. I’m sure LSU would prefer to see another point on your LSAT, but as far as students go you are in their range. So, the chances you have will be strongly affected by the softs on your record, including your personal statement, your LORs, etc. In other words, you have a great shot but there are no guarantees since you are their 50% medians.
  Thanks!
  Reply
Juan says
October 14, 2019 at 11:32 am
Hello! I have a 164 LSAT and a 4.0 gpa, I am trying to get into a T14 and I am latinx. I know my lsat is well below median and I plan on taking again. But what are my chances of getting into a t14 with these numbers and maybe ED’ing a school like UVA or Duke?
Reply
- Juan says
  October 15, 2019 at 3:58 pm
  I am testing around a 167 / 168
  Reply
- Dave Killoran says
  October 16, 2019 at 1:27 pm
  Hi Juan,
  With your current numbers, you’d have very good chances of getting into one or more T14 schools 🙂 Schools past the T6 are about 75% chances, and that includes UVA and Duke. Even in the T6 you’d have a chance, albeit a bit lower, and more patchy in the T3.
  If you jumped up to 167-168, you’d be even stronger, and looking at better and better financial offers!
  Both Duke and UVA seem to have an ED boost, so that would only help with those schools. That said, you’d likely be forfeiting some scholarship money taking that route.
  Thanks!
  Reply
  - Juan says
    October 16, 2019 at 2:44 pm
    Thank you so much! That really helps, if you don’t mind I have a very specific question that has been bugging me. Would taking a lot of classes with the same professor look bad? In 4 semesters I took 5 classes with the same professor.
    Reply
    - Jon Denning says
      November 24, 2019 at 10:16 pm
      Not at all! Law schools won’t have any idea what your options were for those classes, so there’s no way to even suspect you selected the same instructor intentionally (it’s entirely possible that was the only prof available).
      Reply
Chloe says
September 11, 2019 at 2:21 pm
Hi! I just wanted to ask how important extracurricular activities are to my application. Do I need to be involved on campus a lot or does work experience look better?
Reply
- Dave Killoran says
  September 13, 2019 at 3:36 pm
  Hi Chloe,
  Work and ECs can often be interchangeable, especially for a college student. So, your focus should be on doing things that either further your law interest, or correlate to an area of interest you have. As we always say, build depth in your profile, not breadth. I’d rather see 3 things all related to the same topic as opposed to 3 unrelated things. So, choose things that enhance a known interest.
  Thanks!
  Reply
Sebastian Avella says
September 9, 2019 at 2:21 pm
HI! All your advice has been spectacular, Thank you!
I have a 169 on my LSAT with a 4.03 undergrad gpa, I am hoping to get into a t14 school and I wanted to know if being a URM (Hispanic) and having a few legal internships (state attorney’s office) help boost my application? I also generally wanted your thoughts on my chances in general to get in to one of the T14 with my numbers.
Thank you!
Reply
- Dave Killoran says
  September 11, 2019 at 1:04 pm
  Hi Sebastian,
  Thanks for the message! The chances for you getting into one of the T14 is extremely high, probably >99%. Now, that doesn’t mean you get into every T14 school, but I’d wager you get into more than one (and this assumes of course that the rest of your application is high-quality). So, your numbers won’t be the problem here, and I’d focus your efforts on compiling an application that is unified in its message and top-notch in its presentation. You’ve already handled some of the tough parts, now just take time to learn about what they want, and revise, revise, revise your personal statement. Good luck!
  Reply
Michelle says
July 11, 2019 at 10:37 am
Hello!
I will be applying later this year and would really appreciate an outside opinion regarding my stats/chances. My current stats are 163/4.16, and I am planning to apply to several mid and lower T14s (most especially U Penn, and Georgetown), and other lower-ranked schools.
I believe I would be considered a reverse-splitter for both Penn and Georgetown, and I was wondering what your thoughts were on me getting in with those stats. Would you recommend retaking? I could register for the September test, but I really wanted to get the apps submitted ASAP, as to my understanding, this will slightly help my chances at admission.
Thanks!
Reply
- Jon Denning says
  July 15, 2019 at 7:16 pm
  Hi Michelle – thanks for posting!
  Best advice: first, use a site like My Law School Numbers (https://mylsn.info/ytqczk/) to check your credentials against those of other applicants to see how you’ll likely be treated. I explain in several other replies here exactly how to do it! My guess is that you’ll be competitive at some of the lower T14s with those numbers, but your LSAT is probably going to be a hindrance higher up (top 10-ish).
  So, that in mind, I’d 100% target September for a retake. You’re right that it means you can’t apply on day 1 of most schools’ application windows, but honestly even one or two more points on the test and it’ll easily (easily!) cancel out delays in applying as deep into the cycle as December, possibly even January. So there’s virtually no reason not to give it another shot!
  Reply
Christina says
May 29, 2019 at 8:05 pm
Hi,
Wondering if a 3.48 undergrad gpa with a Masters gpa of 3.781 with an lsat score of around 169/172 would gain acceptance to a top law school?
Reply
- Jon Denning says
  May 29, 2019 at 8:19 pm
  Hi Christina – good question!
  Short answer: absolutely! That undergrad GPA may hold you back in some instances, and unfortunately schools don’t pay a whole lot of attention to masters/grad school GPAs, but with a CAS GPA (that’s LSAC’s official report) of about 3.5 and a 172 high score you’ll certainly be competitive a number of places in the top 14.
  One of my favorite sites for this sort of investigation is called My Law School Numbers: https://mylsn.info/ytqczk/. There you can enter GPA and LSAT ranges reflective of your stats and see how others who applied with similar credentials fared. For instance, using a GPA range of 3.4 to 3.55 and LSAT range of 170-173 I can see that applicants from 2015 to the present had great results (50+% acceptance) at Michigan, UVA, Northwestern, and Georgetown for T14 schools, and were competitive at NYU and Duke as well (just under a 50% acceptance rate at both).
  So it’s a long-shot if you’re looking at any schools in the top 4-5, but within the top 10-15 you’ll absolutely have a number of attractive, reasonably-probable options 🙂
  I hope that helps!
  Reply
Steven says
April 23, 2019 at 10:09 pm
Hi, thank you so much for your content.
I hope you can help me, which I’d say is a rare case.
I am an Asian male, with 170 LSAT and 2.77 GPA on 4.0 scale, which might be 5th percentile for every T14. I also have 2 years of working experience. Do you think I would be considered by bottom T14 schools if I manage to score 172?
Thank you so much!
Reply
- Jon Denning says
  April 23, 2019 at 11:26 pm
  Hey Steven – thanks for posting!
  I don’t think your case is quite as rare as you might suspect, but certainly it’s not the norm: Super Splitters, of which you are one, are a well-known group with some unique considerations to make when applying.
  First, give this blog article by Dave a read, focusing on the group to which you belong:
  https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/what-are-law-school-splitters-reverse-splitters-super-splitters/
  That’ll give you some helpful tips right away (and some encouragement, I think, as a number of schools are notoriously splitter-friendly: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly/).
  Next, use a site like My Law School Numbers (https://mylsn.info/ytqczk/) to enter your info and see how other people with your credentials fared. I’d use an LSAT range of 169-173 and a GPA range of 3.7-3.9, as that will also help answer your question about what a 170 –> 172+ increase might mean for you. (I set the cycle range from 2016-2019)
  Finally, would that extra two points help? Absolutely! In fact, more so for you than for most since you’re trying to combat a GPA that’s really holding you back. Would it be enough to get you into a T14, say in the 10-14 range, if you could get to a 172? That’s harder to predict, although based on the the mylsn results above you’ll see the odds aren’t great:
  Of the T14, only four schools—Penn, UVA, Duke, Northwestern—had acceptance rates above 20%, and among those who got in only one person got multiple acceptances with a GPA at/below yours(http://lawschoolnumbers.com/laqueredup with a 173/2.75) and one other got into Northwestern alone (http://lawschoolnumbers.com/x8e92n with a 173/2.70).
  Granted, those stats aren’t everything, and they don’t tell the full story, but it seems pretty clear that you’re going to need AT LEAST a 172, and likely higher, to have much of a shot at a T14. With a 173-175+ though there’s plenty of reason to be hopeful!
  Reply
Rose says
April 22, 2019 at 6:23 pm
Hi! Thanks for this – your posts are all so helpful. I have a question about retaking.
I took the LSAT for the first time last year, and got a 156. I was going through some personal issues at the time and took a year to figure out if I really wanted to go to law school – turns out, I really do 🙂 So after changing the way I studied (and making a career change that actually gave me the time to study) I just retook the LSAT in March 2019, I got a 163. I have a 3.5 undergrad GPA, and five years of writing/legal career experience. So my question… I am trying to decide if I should retake the test in June? I am worried that the 156 score looks bad, especially if I took it again and did worse than 163. I think I can maybe do a point or two better but 163/164 is looking like a plateau for me. Most schools I’m looking at seem to have median scores between 160-164.
Would be really interested in your thoughts! Thanks!
Reply
- Dave Killoran says
  April 23, 2019 at 3:37 pm
  Hi Rose,
  Thanks for the question! These days law schools focus only on the high score, so your 156 is irrelevant 🙂 With that in mind, if your 163 is at the median and it s sort of plateau for you, then I’m not sure it’s worth it to retake. Being at the median is critical, so for those 164 schools it would certainly help, but if you feel like the chances aren’t great you’ll improve, it’s hard to justify using your time to prepare.
  So, score increase possibilities aside, when you think about this decision, ignore the 156—the law schools will 🙂
  Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!
  Thanks!
  Reply