Anyone who has been following posts on the PowerScore blog knows that I’m pretty interested in using data to get insights into law school admissions. For example:
- What factors might affect law school admissions decisions?
- To what degree do those factors have an impact?
- How do different facets of an application package affect admissions decisions at different law schools?
So far, I have explored whether the timing of the application makes a difference, the benefits (or lack thereof) of binding early decision options, which schools are relatively more welcoming of splitter and reverse-splitter candidates, and how an applicant’s ability to claim underrepresented minority status may affect outcomes. In this post, we’ll dive into the data to try to get an idea of whether – and how – nontraditional students (or, in common shorthand, NonTrads) fare any differently in law school admissions outcomes.
What is a NonTrad?
“Nontraditional” status as an applicant is not an incredibly well-defined concept, but it kind of reminds me of Justice Potter Stewart’s famous statement in Jacobellis v. Ohio: I know it when I see it. The general idea is that a nontraditional law school applicant is one who hasn’t followed the typical high school-to-college-to-law-school track, and so is a bit older and probably with a little more experience – work and otherwise – than a typical “traditional” law school applicant.
How much older or more experienced is not an easily answered question. But for our purposes, nontraditional applicants are those in our data who self-identified as nontraditional, and that seems like a reasonable way to handle it.
Nontraditional Boosts
Something else that’s a little different about analyzing a potential “nontraditional boost” (that is, an advantage given to nontraditional applicants based solely on their nontraditional status) compared to analyzing the same for, say, URM applicants, is that there’s quite a bit less in the way of theoretical underpinnings of such a boost.
If it exists, it might be because law schools expect someone who has a little more world experience to perhaps take law school more seriously and thus be more successful. On the other hand, a big gap between undergrad and law school might indicate that the applicant has been away from the academy for so long that re-integrating and succeeding might be difficult.
Maybe schools, in a quest for diversity, look not only to race, ethnicity, and gender, but also to age diversity? If anyone else has any input into why nontraditional students might receive a boost or, in the alternative, be disadvantaged, by all means use that comments section!
Quantifying the Boost
With that said, I plan to look for a potential nontraditional boost much the same way I did a URM-boost. I will first see if we can quantify such a boost by measuring the effects of nontraditional status on admissions outcomes, controlling for a variety of other quantifiable factors. Next, I will present average LSAT and GPA numbers for both nontraditional and traditional admits to those schools in the USNWR top 100 for which we have sufficient user-reported data.
As a preliminary: this analysis makes use of data reported by law school applicants themselves, and covers the 2009/10 through 2015/16 application cycles. Again, nontraditional status for individual applicants was also self-reported. As a final note: the tables here reflect the USNWR rankings for schools prior to the very recent 2018 release, but based on the 2018 rankings, I now include Top 13 tables instead of Top 14 (since I would argue that the concept of the Top 14 is no longer current since Georgetown dropped out and Texas has not always been there).
Does a Nontraditional Boost Exist?
Unlike the URM boost, which existed in nearly every school we covered, the nontraditional boost only seems to exist in a few schools and, in fact, a handful of schools seem to disadvantage nontraditional applicants. Let’s take a look!
Note: The number given in the table is the % increase in chances of admission for nontraditional applicants compared to traditional applicants, controlling for LSAT, GPA, applicant sex, ED application, URM status, and month the application was sent.
Schools Where a Nontraditional Status (Seems to) Matter
| Rank | School | Increase/Decrease in Chances of Admission for Non-Trads |
|---|---|---|
| 65 | U of Connecticut | 337% |
| 72 | Loyola Chicago | 243% |
| 22 | Notre Dame | 229% |
| 40 | Wake Forest | 211% |
| 50 | Tulane | 193% |
| 28 | U Alabama | 184% |
| 48 | U of Maryland | 169% |
| 30 | William & Mary | 144% |
| 17 | UCLA | 111% |
| 15 | U Texas | 102% |
| 2 | Harvard | 86% |
| 14 | Georgetown | 76% |
| 78 | American | -50% |
| 40 | U of Illinois | -54% |
| 40 | Washington & Lee | -58% |
| 18 | WUSTL | -62% |
| 48 | U of Florida | -67% |
| 4 | Chicago | -73% |
Schools Where a NonTrad Status Doesn’t (Seem to) Matter
| Rank | School | Rank | School |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Yale | 40 | U of Arizona |
| 3 | Stanford | 40 | U of Colorado - Boulder |
| 4 | Columbia | 45 | George Mason |
| 6 | NYU | 45 | Southern Methodist |
| 7 | U Penn | 45 | U of Utah |
| 8 | UC Berkeley | 50 | FSU |
| 8 | Michigan | 50 | Temple |
| 8 | UVA | 50 | UC Hastings |
| 11 | Duke | 50 | U of Houston |
| 12 | Northwestern | 55 | Baylor |
| 13 | Cornell | 55 | Richmond |
| 16 | Vanderbilt | 57 | Case Western |
| 19 | USC | 57 | Georgia State |
| 20 | Boston U | 60 | U of Kentucky |
| 20 | Iowa | 60 | U of Miami |
| 22 | Emory | 65 | Loyola Marymount |
| 22 | Minnesota | 65 | Pepperdine |
| 25 | Arizona State | 72 | University of Denver |
| 25 | GW | 74 | U of San Diego |
| 25 | Indiana - Bloomington | 74 | Cardozo |
| 28 | Boston College | 78 | U of Pittsburgh |
| 30 | Ohio State | 82 | Northeastern |
| 30 | UC Davis | 86 | Chicago-Kent |
| 33 | U Georgia | 86 | Penn State - Dickinson |
| 33 | U Washington | 86 | Syracuse |
| 33 | U Wisconsin - Madison | 92 | Lewis & Clark |
| 37 | Fordham | 97 | Brooklyn Law School |
| 38 | UNC | 100 | Michigan State |
Analyzing the Charts
As you can see, only twelve law schools seem, based on the data, to provide any sort of boost to nontraditional applicants, and that boost ranges from 337% at the University of Connecticut to 76% at Georgetown. Half as many schools (six) actually appear to disadvantage nontraditional applicants, with those applicants having their chances cut from between 50% at American to 73% at the University of Chicago, when compared to otherwise identical peers (at least as far as our controls – LSAT, GPA, etc. go). And, of course, you can see that the vast majority of these schools demonstrate no statistically significant effects of an applicant’s nontraditional status.
Top Law Schools & Average LSAT Scores
In order to bring the analysis a little closer to a more easily-digested reality, I present a few tables that show the average LSAT and GPA scores for admitted nontraditional students vs. admitted traditional students for the schools in question here. The schools are listed in order of the difference between the average traditional admit’s LSAT and that of the average nontraditional admit.
Please note that nothing else is controlled for here, and these are just the raw numbers; in other words, these are just descriptive statistics for your viewing pleasure, and these tables alone aren’t indicative of any statistically significant difference in the acceptance rates of applicants based on their nontraditional status. (Due to rounding, the differential score sometimes seems off by 0.1.)
| School | Traditional LSAT | Non-Traditional LSAT | LSAT Differential |
|---|---|---|---|
| Yale | 174.4 | 171.8 | 2.6 |
| UC Berkeley | 170.7 | 168.8 | 1.9 |
| Harvard | 173.3 | 171.6 | 1.8 |
| Michigan | 170.4 | 168.8 | 1.6 |
| Chicago | 171.6 | 170.1 | 1.5 |
| Georgetown | 170.6 | 169.1 | 1.4 |
| Cornell | 169.6 | 168.3 | 1.2 |
| Fordham | 166.9 | 165.7 | 1.2 |
| Iowa | 164.4 | 163.1 | 1.2 |
| U of Arizona | 163.1 | 162.0 | 1.2 |
| Minnesota | 167.5 | 166.3 | 1.2 |
| U of Connecticut | 162.3 | 161.2 | 1.2 |
| Arizona State | 163.9 | 162.7 | 1.2 |
| Temple | 163.0 | 161.9 | 1.1 |
| Northwestern | 171.0 | 169.9 | 1.1 |
| U Texas | 169.5 | 168.5 | 1.0 |
| Brooklyn | 163.0 | 161.9 | 1.0 |
| NYU | 172.4 | 171.4 | 1.0 |
| U Penn | 171.1 | 170.1 | 1.0 |
| Baylor | 163.4 | 162.5 | 0.9 |
| American | 160.7 | 159.9 | 0.9 |
| Michigan State | 158.3 | 157.5 | 0.8 |
| William & Mary | 166.3 | 165.6 | 0.8 |
| Hastings | 164.1 | 163.4 | 0.7 |
| Cardozo | 163.9 | 163.3 | 0.7 |
| UVA | 170.3 | 169.7 | 0.7 |
| Duke | 171.5 | 170.9 | 0.6 |
| U Alabama | 165.7 | 165.2 | 0.5 |
| Pepperdine | 163.3 | 162.8 | 0.5 |
| UC Davis | 165.2 | 164.8 | 0.5 |
| U of Miami | 160.7 | 160.3 | 0.5 |
| UCLA | 169.5 | 169.1 | 0.4 |
| U of Utah | 162.9 | 162.6 | 0.3 |
| WUSTL | 167.9 | 167.6 | 0.3 |
| U of Colorado - Boulder | 165.3 | 165.0 | 0.3 |
| Notre Dame | 166.5 | 166.2 | 0.3 |
| Vanderbilt | 169.1 | 168.9 | 0.3 |
| Northeastern | 162.8 | 162.6 | 0.3 |
| Ohio State | 163.9 | 163.6 | 0.3 |
| USC | 168.4 | 168.2 | 0.2 |
| Southern Methodist | 164.0 | 163.9 | 0.1 |
| Tulane | 162.7 | 162.6 | 0.1 |
| Lewis & Clark | 163.1 | 163.0 | 0.1 |
| Loyola - Chicago | 161.3 | 161.2 | 0.1 |
| U of Maryland | 162.9 | 162.8 | 0.1 |
| U of Illinois | 165.6 | 165.6 | 0.0 |
| Houston | 163.8 | 163.8 | 0.0 |
| UNC | 164.3 | 164.3 | 0.0 |
| Emory | 166.9 | 166.9 | 0.0 |
| Boston College | 166.3 | 166.4 | -0.1 |
| GW | 167.1 | 167.2 | -0.1 |
| Washington & Lee | 164.9 | 165.0 | -0.1 |
| FSU | 162.2 | 162.4 | -0.2 |
| U of Wisconsin - Madison | 164.2 | 164.4 | -0.2 |
| U of Kentucky | 160.6 | 160.8 | -0.2 |
| Columbia | 173.0 | 173.3 | -0.3 |
| Wake Forest | 164.0 | 164.3 | -0.3 |
| Richmond | 162.0 | 162.3 | -0.3 |
| Stanford | 172.4 | 172.8 | -0.4 |
| Loyola Marymount | 162.9 | 163.3 | -0.4 |
| Chicago-Kent | 161.4 | 161.9 | -0.5 |
| Penn State | 161.2 | 161.7 | -0.5 |
| U Washington | 166.4 | 167.0 | -0.6 |
| U of San Diego | 162.5 | 163.1 | -0.6 |
| Indiana - Bloomington | 164.9 | 165.6 | -0.7 |
| U Georgia | 165.9 | 166.6 | -0.7 |
| U of Pittsburgh | 161.3 | 162.1 | -0.7 |
| Georgia State | 165.9 | 166.6 | -0.7 |
| Denver | 160.5 | 161.2 | -0.7 |
| Syracuse | 156.7 | 157.5 | -0.8 |
| Boston U | 166.5 | 167.5 | -1.0 |
| George Mason | 163.3 | 164.3 | -1.0 |
| Case Western | 161.0 | 163.1 | -2.0 |
| U of Florida | 162.8 | 165.0 | -2.2 |
You’ll note that, for the most part, accepted traditional applicants had higher LSATs than accepted nontraditional applicants, with the number sometimes being pretty substantial (Yale, Berkeley, and Harvard really stand out here). It’s also worth noting that 6 out of the top 10 LSAT differentials are Top 13 schools.
The Top 13 & LSATs
And now, for a look at just the Top 13 law schools, isolated.
School | Traditional LSAT | Nontraditional LSAT | LSAT Differential |
|---|---|---|---|
| Yale | 174.4 | 171.8 | 2.6 |
| UC Berkeley | 170.7 | 168.8 | 1.9 |
| Harvard | 173.3 | 171.6 | 1.8 |
| Michigan | 170.4 | 168.8 | 1.6 |
| Chicago | 171.6 | 170.1 | 1.5 |
| Cornell | 169.6 | 168.3 | 1.2 |
| Northwestern | 171.0 | 169.9 | 1.1 |
| NYU | 172.4 | 171.4 | 1.0 |
| U Penn | 171.1 | 170.1 | 1.0 |
| UVA | 170.3 | 169.7 | 0.7 |
| Duke | 171.5 | 170.9 | 0.6 |
| Columbia | 173.0 | 173.3 | -0.3 |
| Stanford | 172.4 | 172.8 | -0.3 |
There’s honestly not much to say here, and since we’re just looking at raw numbers. It may be worth noting that Columbia and Stanford actually exhibit the opposite tendency, in that nontraditional admits have higher average LSATs, whereas everywhere else traditional admits’ LSAT scores were at least 0.6 higher on average.
Top Law Schools & Average GPAs
In the following tables, we repeat the same exercise for GPA:
| School | Traditional GPA | Non-Traditional GPA | GPA Differential |
|---|---|---|---|
| Arizona State | 3.58 | 3.21 | 0.37 |
| U of Utah | 3.55 | 3.20 | 0.35 |
| Baylor | 3.51 | 3.19 | 0.32 |
| U of Alabama | 3.55 | 3.26 | 0.29 |
| Case Western | 3.43 | 3.16 | 0.28 |
| Indiana - Bloomington | 3.53 | 3.26 | 0.27 |
| U of Kentucky | 3.45 | 3.19 | 0.26 |
| U Georgia | 3.52 | 3.29 | 0.23 |
| Southern Methodist | 3.49 | 3.26 | 0.23 |
| Georgia State | 3.51 | 3.28 | 0.23 |
| Syracuse | 3.37 | 3.14 | 0.23 |
| U of Pittsburgh | 3.45 | 3.22 | 0.23 |
| Pepperdine | 3.57 | 3.35 | 0.21 |
| Notre Dame | 3.64 | 3.44 | 0.20 |
| Richmond | 3.42 | 3.22 | 0.20 |
| U Colorado - Boulder | 3.55 | 3.36 | 0.20 |
| U of Arizona | 3.53 | 3.34 | 0.20 |
| Washington & Lee | 3.53 | 3.34 | 0.19 |
| Denver | 3.40 | 3.21 | 0.18 |
| Iowa | 3.61 | 3.42 | 0.18 |
| Loyola - Chicago | 3.38 | 3.19 | 0.18 |
| Wake Forest | 3.52 | 3.34 | 0.18 |
| U of Maryland | 3.40 | 3.31 | 0.17 |
| Lewis & Clark | 3.44 | 3.28 | 0.16 |
| UCLA | 3.74 | 3.59 | 0.16 |
| U of Illinois | 3.51 | 3.36 | 0.16 |
| American | 3.43 | 3.28 | 0.15 |
| GW | 3.61 | 3.46 | 0.15 |
| William & Mary | 3.64 | 3.50 | 0.15 |
| Boston College | 3.62 | 3.48 | 0.14 |
| Emory | 3.60 | 3.46 | 0.14 |
| Penn State | 3.45 | 3.31 | 0.14 |
| Loyola Marymount | 3.52 | 3.38 | 0.14 |
| Minnesota | 3.54 | 3.40 | 0.14 |
| UC Davis | 3.62 | 3.48 | 0.13 |
| Georgetown | 3.72 | 3.58 | 0.13 |
| Tulane | 3.47 | 3.35 | 0.13 |
| Houston | 3.47 | 3.34 | 0.13 |
| UVA | 3.74 | 3.61 | 0.13 |
| Chicago-Kent | 3.34 | 3.21 | 0.13 |
| Vanderbilt | 3.69 | 3.57 | 0.13 |
| U of San Diego | 3.47 | 3.35 | 0.12 |
| Stanford | 3.89 | 3.76 | 0.12 |
| U of Miami | 3.45 | 3.33 | 0.12 |
| U Texas | 3.71 | 3.59 | 0.12 |
| Ohio State | 3.62 | 3.50 | 0.12 |
| NYU | 3.78 | 3.66 | 0.11 |
| U of Florida | 3.57 | 3.46 | 0.11 |
| Columbia | 3.78 | 3.67 | 0.11 |
| U Washington | 3.66 | 3.55 | 0.11 |
| U Penn | 3.81 | 3.71 | 0.10 |
| Temple | 3.46 | 3.36 | 0.10 |
| Northwestern | 3.68 | 3.59 | 0.10 |
| Cardozo | 3.50 | 3.40 | 0.09 |
| Duke | 3.79 | 3.70 | 0.09 |
| George Mason | 3.50 | 3.41 | 0.09 |
| Yale | 3.91 | 3.82 | 0.09 |
| WUSTL | 3.54 | 3.45 | 0.09 |
| U of Connecticut | 3.44 | 3.35 | 0.08 |
| USC | 3.73 | 3.65 | 0.08 |
| Harvard | 3.87 | 3.79 | 0.08 |
| Boston U | 3.66 | 3.58 | 0.08 |
| Hastings | 3.54 | 3.47 | 0.07 |
| Cornell | 3.74 | 3.67 | 0.07 |
| Fordham | 3.61 | 3.54 | 0.07 |
| UNC | 3.56 | 3.50 | 0.06 |
| FSU | 3.48 | 3.43 | 0.05 |
| Michigan | 3.74 | 3.69 | 0.05 |
| Chicago | 3.83 | 3.79 | 0.04 |
| UC Berkeley | 3.83 | 3.79 | 0.04 |
| Northeastern | 3.47 | 3.45 | 0.02 |
| Brooklyn | 3.47 | 3.45 | 0.02 |
| Michigan State | 3.47 | 3.47 | -0.01 |
| U Wisconsin - Madison | 3.47 | 3.49 | -0.03 |
Average GPAs for Top Law Schools
School | Traditional GPA | Nontraditional GPA | GPA Differential |
|---|---|---|---|
| UVA | 3.74 | 3.61 | 0.13 |
| Stanford | 3.89 | 3.76 | 0.12 |
| NYU | 3.78 | 3.66 | 0.11 |
| Columbia | 3.78 | 3.67 | 0.11 |
| U Penn | 3.81 | 3.71 | 0.10 |
| Northwestern | 3.68 | 3.59 | 0.10 |
| Duke | 3.79 | 3.70 | 0.09 |
| Yale | 3.91 | 3.82 | 0.09 |
| Harvard | 3.87 | 3.79 | 0.08 |
| Cornell | 3.74 | 3.67 | 0.07 |
| Michigan | 3.74 | 3.69 | 0.05 |
| Chicago | 3.83 | 3.79 | 0.04 |
| UC Berkeley | 3.83 | 3.79 | 0.04 |
Summarizing the Data
Here again, we see a broad range of differentials, this time for the GPA. What really stands out to me is that almost all schools demonstrate at least a somewhat average GPA for traditional students, and that this is true of all Top 13 schools. This may be due to the fact that schools are willing to be a bit more forgiving of lower GPAs for nontraditional students, given that they’ve put some temporal distance between themselves and those GPAs, and have ostensibly matured and gotten more serious in the meantime.
On the other hand, if you just wrapped up your undergrad GPA before applying to law school (or are, in many cases, still forming it), there’s not much reason to believe you’ll be any different by the time you set foot in your first law class. That’s just conjecture on my part, though.
So, there you have it. In a nutshell, a quantifiable nontraditional boost does exist for some schools, but about half that many seem to actually disadvantage nontraditional applicants.
Brandon says
Hi,
I appreciate these posts I have been reading, they are immensely valuable! I am a nontraditional student as well, but even stranger than most (I think). Hopefully I can get some insight here…
I have a Doctorate in Artificial Intelligence (Computer Science) and currently work on DoD contracts to make AI more Legal, Moral, and Ethical (a DoD term). I have numerous publications in combining psychology, neuroscience, AI, And other interdisciplinary fields. I’ve worked on numerous high profile government BAAs.
During my PhD work I also was a Fulbright scholar to Australia where I was working with Ecologists and farmers to use drones to track invasive grasses that contribute to brushfires and hurt cattle and dairy farmers. Previous to that I was a National Science Foundation fellow and worked on reconstructing pieces of a rodent brain for AI.
In addition to all this I also have been interviewed on national radio, had numerous news pieces written about me, and numerous invited presentations spanning 3 continents.
The problem is, my first 2.5 years of undergrad were so poor that even though I maintained a 4.0 for the remaining credits, I was only able to recover to a 3.29 GPA. I am certain I will be able to get an LSAt above 165, fairly certain I can get in the 168 range, and reasonably optimistic I can crack 170, but based on everything I’m reading it’s going to be a tough time getting into a top school.
It’s very frustrating because I come from a seriously messed up and broken background with a meth addicted abusive mom, whom I testified against at 11 years old and I’ve been able to seriously overcome that (for example my radio interview was about this experience and how I got to where I am now), but with applying to law school…its just a number and doesn’t seem to be that important. It took me until about 21/22 years old to make the decision to not be a victim any more and instead make my life, and it seems I can’t escape that now. In fact, a major reason I want to go into law specifically to fight to give those who come from broken background a second chance at life like I had.
So my question is, what should I do? How do I beat this and get where I want to go? I can write a killer essay, but if I cant even get past the cutoff it seems there is no use.
Thank you for the help!
Brandon
PowerScore Test Prep says
Hi Brandon,
Thanks for the post! It sounds like you have an impressive background, and that should definitely help you in the application process! 🙂 As a “nontraditional” applicant, your “softs” (letters of recommendation, personal statement, resume, etc.) will play a large factor in your acceptance to law school, and they can also help offset your undergraduate GPA.
Also, you are what we call a “splitter”: someone with a higher LSAT score and a lower undergraduate GPA. You can find some more information about splitters here:
https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/what-are-law-school-splitters-reverse-splitters-super-splitters/
https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly/
I would continue to prep for the LSAT to make sure your score is as high as possible. 🙂
Lastly, it sounds like you do have a compelling reason for why your undergraduate GPA may have been lower. Also, you demostrated improvement in your last year and a half of your undergrad. Thus, you may want to consider writing an addendum to explain the situation: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/whats-the-deal-with-addenda/.
Hopefully, this information helps! If you’re looking for some specific assistance with any parts of your application, you may want to look into our admission consulting resources: https://www.powerscore.com/lsat/law-school-admissions. 🙂 Thanks!
Dan Terry says
Hi, I’m a nontraditional hoping to get into a top school. I’m 55 years young with 35 years in the transportation industry and looking to change gears now and go to law school as the next chapter in my book of life, I had a health setback in 2016-18 with Valley Fever, and its a small disability but not a game stopper for me by no means.
The health setback is what started me going back to school to get my upgrade degree , the reason being to have a backup plan if I became completely disabled, so I went after a BSBA and finished last year at CTU with a GPA of 3.96.
My question is what LSAT score should I set for myself as a minimum score to move forward with the hopes of getting into a top 10 law school?
I plan on paying for most of the tuition out of pocket but would like to get as much as I can in scholarships if possible. I take the LSAT test in Oct, my wife and I set a minimum LSAT score of 165, to consider law school as an option.
Also, I will do my best to write a great personal statement and my LORs are in great detail from people that I’ve worked with over the years.
Any other thoughts or concerns?
Thank you for taking the time to put all this information on here I learned a lot.
Sincerely,
Dan
PowerScore Test Prep says
Hi Dan,
Thank you for your comment! We would encourage you to utilize one of our favorite resources for researching data on nearly all of the ABA-approved schools in North America: LSAC’s LSAT/GPA Calculator. This tool allows you to input your undergraduate GPA and your highest LSAT score (in your case, the score you’re aiming for), and get feedback on where each stands relative to attendees at individual schools, as well as your likely odds of duplicating that result on those figures.
Law schools primarily care about your overall GPA and LSAT score, particularly the LSAT score. Those are the standard predictors of how a student will do in law school. So we would recommend focusing on preparing for the LSAT so that you’re able to score as high as possible, and making sure your softs (personal statement, résumé, letters of recommendation, any addenda, and supplemental essays) are good enough that they don’t hinder you.
Thank you!
Bluehair says
I’m 61 years old and a disabled vet. I have been a congressional staffer and then worked as a bus driver until my health would not allow me to pass a physical. I have income from the VA Disability program and Social Security. I would like to go to law school to be able to provide pro bono legal services to the poor and disabled. My GPA from the 1980’s as an undergrad was a 2.88 but the LSAC adjusted it from quarter hours to semester hours and they say it’s a 2.73! Ouch! I went to a semester at another school a few years later and I have a 4.0 there but LSAC said it doesn’t count because it’s Grad coursework.
I am taking an LSAT prep course, but I’m realistically thinking I’ll get a score of 150-152.
I would like to go to an online program like Mitchell Hamline if possible. Do I have any chance? How about if I have a bad test day and get a 148?
Dave Killoran says
Hi blue,
Thanks for the message! I previously lived in Minneapolis and am fairly familiar with Mitchell Hamline. Your GPA is just under their 25th percentile, but your life experience will likely offset that (I’d recommend making sure you write a fantastic personal statement, using some of the principles I talk about in this free seminar: PowerScore’s Law School Personal Statement Seminar. Your work as a bus driver could probably be used as the backbone for a tremendous statement, since you get to interact with such a wide variety of people in that job. That’s just one thought, though, and there are other options based on what you said.
Since your GPA will come in under their 25th, you don’t have a whole lot of latitude on your LSAT score. The part time program is slightly more lenient than the full time program (on both GPA and LSAT), but the full-time numbers are: 149 / 152 / 156. I’d argue that you need to hit at least 152 to make them feel confident for full-time admission. Score below that and you still have a shot, but it gets harder for them.
You mentioned you were taking an LSAT course, and I hope it’s one of ours! If not, make sure to pick up the LSAT Bibles and take tests in a Digital format.
Good luck!
Sum dude says
Hi, I’m a nontraditional hoping to get a significant scholarship to CCN.
I have the scores for it (99.3-percentile LSAT, 3.9x GPA), so just want to make sure I don’t step wrong with my recommendations.
I finished undergrad 20 years ago and have worked continuously since then, achieving a degree of success in a technical/specialized type of consulting.
I don’t have relationships with old college profs, so for one I’m planning to go with a more-senior colleague at my consulting firm who I’ve worked with for 7 years. For another, I’m thinking of going with a contact from a client company — a retired partner from an AmLaw 100 law firm (the firm is my client). I gave him consulting advice for years, and he knows my capabilities since the consulting we do is fairly technical.
Does that seem like a good approach? Any other thoughts?
PowerScore Test Prep says
Thank you for your question!
One of the most important things about letters of recommendation is to choose people who know you well because detail is critical, so you’re off to a good start! The fastest way to get yourself in trouble is to have a recommender who doesn’t know you and is then very general in what they say. Make sure they talk in a specific fashion about you: detail is king. Please check out our PowerScore video on YouTube that covers a discussion we had about the LORs in great detail here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56JHjSDVn7Q
Good luck!
Rachael says
I would say I am a nontraditional student. 43 year old recent college grad, working for over 20 years and going to school, planning to go to law school. My gpa total is 3.1 due to 1 bad year in 1999. GPA is 3.9 in my major and cumulative 3.5 without that bad year. LSAT marginal at best at 141. I’m trying to decide how important it really will be to try to increase my LSAT while working full time and still not much more time to study ahead of time. The plan is to go to law school full time so, while in law school, I won’t have the work/school issue. Is the nontraditional student that much a boost in a situation like this? I worry my LSAT and GPA will automatically put me in the deny pile without a second look at my resume, personal statement, etc. Thoughts?
Dave Killoran says
Hi Rachael,
Thanks for the message! You are definitely a nontrad student, which is indeed helpful 🙂 Is it enough to offset the numbers situation you currently face? No, so let’s talk about that:
1. GPA. Law schools report the CAS GPA, and so that’s the number the focus on. That means your 3.1 is what will be used for admission decisions and reporting. You can’t change that at this point, so it is what it is. I would write a GPA addendum explaining the one bad year, which will help explain what happened and ease some minds, but this can’t be entirely erased.
2. LSAT. Because your GPA is fixed, your LSAT score becomes even more important. At your current score, you will face an uphill climb at most law school in terms of being admitted. The best way to fix that? Retake the LSAT and improve your score. That may sound daunting, but you have plenty of room to raise your score, and getting into the middle of the scale would have a huge effect on your options and results. In my personal opinion, it’s essential that you retake the exam.
So, the short answer is that the nontrad boost won’t offset the GPA/LSAT problems, and as it stands, at many schools you wouldn’t get far.
Sorry for that news, but there is still a pathway here for success, if you can focus on that LSAT score. It’s what we do here, so if we can help just let us know. Thanks!